180 Grain .40 XTP on Deer?

Semisane · 07-01-2008, 04:02 PM

Have any of you guys used a 40 caliber 180 grain jacketed pistol bullet (XTP, GD, etc.) in a .45 caliber sabot on deer? If so, how did the bullet hold up?

sabotloader · 07-01-2008, 05:09 PM

Semisane

I think the 180 grain Gold Dot would work really well, but I can not get it to shoot accurately out of any of my 1/28 twist rifles. Lee speculated, and actually looked it up - it is to short to stablize - according to the formula. Seems it would shoot well from a 1/48 though...

dmurphy317 · 07-01-2008, 05:26 PM

Sabotloader,

My understanding of twist rates is that the length of the bullet defines the slowest twist that should stablize a bullet. Any twist from there and faster should stablize that size bullet and smaller. There may be a ratio of length to diameter that comes into play but the 180 grain is shorter than the 200 .040 bullets that do shoot well in 1:28 twists so I don't think that is a factor. I know that I can shoot round ball in my 1:28 guns and get very good stability as long as the powder charge and patch thickness are optimized. I don't see any reason why the 180 grain bullet would be any harder to stabilize than a round ball, it just needs have the optimum powder/sabot setup to achieve it. Any thoughts or data that go against this theory?

Semisane · 07-01-2008, 06:33 PM

I'm more interested in what the terminal performance might be. Was hoping someone has actually shot a deer with one of those 180s.

If you saw my post on "The .45 GM Barrel's Maiden Voyage" you'll note that I got the 210 grain "41 Mag" Gold Dots to shoot pretty well. I have no doubt they would work fine on deer. They are designed as a hunting bullet. But the 180s are designed for "personal protection". I'm thinking about protecting myself from a white tail.

sabotloader · 07-01-2008, 06:58 PM

dmurphy317

I certainly can not challenge your thoughts... the only thing I can tell you at the velocity i chose to shoot them they would not perform well. I am sure if you slowed them down the accuracy would increase but the energy would suffer also. I am aware that to shoot a PRB from a 1/28 you need to slow them down a lot. But conversly i believe you could shoot the shorter bullets from a 1/48 a greater velocities than you can from a 1/28 + achieve accuracy and energy. Even in a 1/48 I can not shoot a PRB as well as the guy using a 1/66 or 70 twist - I am painfully finding that out at these Rhondy shoots... If the targets were all the same distance one might be able to work a compromise - but when they range from 20 yards to 200 yards - I am thinking the slower twist with the short length of the PRB work best...

lemoyne · 07-01-2008, 08:30 PM

I could not get them[the 180gr 40 cal ] to shoot at hunting velocity either in a 1/28 twist after I ran them through my Greenhill program I tried them in my 1/38 twist System One they shoot quite well in it; I have not tried to use them for hunting. Lee

jascoesens · 07-01-2008, 10:17 PM

Hey Seimisane,
Hawk Bullets may have a heavier .40 cal bullet for you to try if those light weight 180g or 200 g bullets don't group well for you. Check this out. http://www.hawkbullets.com/muzzlebullets.htm
Can you imagine a 235g 40 cal bullet. Many shooters will be drooling over these bullets matched up with MMP or Harvester sabots.
Also, I have been waiting for harvester to post info on their site re their new 40 cal bullet / sabots. Just read today that somebody called them and was told it would be a few more weeks yet.
James

Semisane · 07-01-2008, 10:33 PM

They look interesting jas, but dang - expensive. I can get 100 of the 210 GDs for 2/3 the price of 50 of those.

The GDs are tight in my bore with crush rib sabots, but I can get them to load without pounding on the ramrod. I'm going to play with them a little. Have only shot them with 75 grains GOEX (1566 fps over the chrono). I want to try some other loads, and maybe Pyrodex and/or T7. Lots of things left totry with my .45 GM LRH barrel.

oldsmellhound · 07-02-2008, 07:20 AM

I've used the .40 cal 200 grain XTP's with great success on whitetail. As far as I'm aware, the 180 grain XTP isn't really structurally different than the 200 grain - just a little lighter/shorter. I'm sure it would perform very well on whitetail at moderate velocities - I'm not sure if I'd try and push it with a max load.

I've had the jacket separate from the core with the 200 grain XTP only once, and I still got full penetration. That time was a coup de grace shot from 3 yards away - 80 grains 777 and the 200 grain XTP. The XTP fully penetrated the chest cavity diagonally - I found it lodged in the far side hide. The jacket had separated, but the bullet still did its job.

All other shots with the 200 grainer were complete pass-throughs. I would guess that with the 180 grainer you may not always get complete pass-throughs, but it would still do a good job on deer out to 100 yards or so.

Note: Another possibility with your .45 barrel is to getsome MMP.45/.357 sabots and get a box of .357 mag. bullets (XTP, Gold Dot, etc.). Shouldbe fun

BrushPopper · 07-02-2008, 08:49 AM

Closest I've come is a 200 grainer on a Javelina.

Velocity wasn't all that high but expansion was violent and damn near excessive.

Post with pics here: http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2646218Bullet was recovered and photographed...

My opinion: This is a bullet designed to expand at handgun velocities, push it too much and it'll just come apart without penetrating enough.

Let us know how it works out for you!
BP

That being said, you sure as heck don't want to get hit with one at any speed!