most accurate muzzleloader????
03-17-2008, 07:30 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: southwest Ohio
Posts: 1,047
most accurate muzzleloader????
Just curious, what is the best you've owned?
To be fair let's divide the group into 2 classifications - open sights & scopes.
I've been burning black powder since the 1970s, and probably the most accurate open sight gun was a T/C .36 Seneca. I know that goes against the "bigger is better" theory for a round ball gun, but I could (and have) shot 3 shot scores of 30/3X with that rifle shooting offhand at 100 yards! Of course the sights were a lot clearer back then, seems like they all use those cheap sights that look fuzzy these days!
For scoped muzzleloaders I'd have to give #1 honors to a Remington 700 MLS (stainless). Consistant sub-MOA accuracy with a variety of bullets!
A close #2 would be a T/C Omega. One of the early ones, and it would keep them close to MOA or under with a few different loads. About 1.5 MOA with 150 gr charges!!!!!!!!!!
Think back and remember the "sweet" ones, then do like I do and beat yourself up mentally for letting go of them. [:@]
The Remington was a pain to disassemble to clean for me, and the Omega was lost to a weak moment when a newcomer in muzzleloadingasked me where he could geta good used rifle.
The Seneca went because the .45 barrel I bought for it made the balance terrible, and I couldn't use it for deer hunting. Accuracy with the .45 barrel was terrible - not the barrel quality, butthe balance was just too bad to be able to hit anything offhand. I wanted a deer rifle, so I traded the Seneca on a Hawken.
To be fair let's divide the group into 2 classifications - open sights & scopes.
I've been burning black powder since the 1970s, and probably the most accurate open sight gun was a T/C .36 Seneca. I know that goes against the "bigger is better" theory for a round ball gun, but I could (and have) shot 3 shot scores of 30/3X with that rifle shooting offhand at 100 yards! Of course the sights were a lot clearer back then, seems like they all use those cheap sights that look fuzzy these days!
For scoped muzzleloaders I'd have to give #1 honors to a Remington 700 MLS (stainless). Consistant sub-MOA accuracy with a variety of bullets!
A close #2 would be a T/C Omega. One of the early ones, and it would keep them close to MOA or under with a few different loads. About 1.5 MOA with 150 gr charges!!!!!!!!!!
Think back and remember the "sweet" ones, then do like I do and beat yourself up mentally for letting go of them. [:@]
The Remington was a pain to disassemble to clean for me, and the Omega was lost to a weak moment when a newcomer in muzzleloadingasked me where he could geta good used rifle.
The Seneca went because the .45 barrel I bought for it made the balance terrible, and I couldn't use it for deer hunting. Accuracy with the .45 barrel was terrible - not the barrel quality, butthe balance was just too bad to be able to hit anything offhand. I wanted a deer rifle, so I traded the Seneca on a Hawken.
03-17-2008, 07:51 PM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: most accurate muzzleloader????
wabi
I guess I have been extremely lucky most of the ML's that I have owned have been what I thought to be exceptionally accurate. The least accurate of all of them was a CVA Magbolt 50 cal. It is gone been gone for several years.
Rating the sidehamers that I have... or had... (all open sights)
Lyman 54 cal Trade Rifle - sabot shooter -> very good to excellent
TC Hawkens - sabot shooter -> excellent conicals -> excellent
TC Renegades (both 54's and 50's several of em) sabot shooter -> excellent and conicals - excellent
TC Renegades (with GM-LRH Barrels) sabot shooter & conical -> outstanding
Rating In-lines - all 50 cals (all scoped)
Already mentioned the CVA magbolt
Remington 700ML (2 of them) - sabots -> excellent to outstanding
Austin & Halleck 320SN (2 0f them) - sabots -> excellent
Omega (SS) sabots -> excellent to outstanding
White U-mag - sabots -> Wow! outstanding & buy everybodies account conicals -> another wow!
Knight Extreme MHC SS Barrel- sabots -> yet to be dertirmined(and I am not sure if I will shoot conicals from it yet or not)
While i really like all the inlines - for some reason when the weather gets tough or I am after elk in difficult country I always seem to migrate back to the 26" Remington as "old faithful". Mentally I know the White will do the job, and I am hoping the Knight will replace the Remington as the "trusted" one, and yet i would have know trouble if I needed to depend on the Omega. The A&H's while they are great shooters - I do not enjoy carring one of them around all in the woods all day (long and heavy - balance seems off to me).
Hope this makes sense - it does not to my wife - but to me it does...
I guess I have been extremely lucky most of the ML's that I have owned have been what I thought to be exceptionally accurate. The least accurate of all of them was a CVA Magbolt 50 cal. It is gone been gone for several years.
Rating the sidehamers that I have... or had... (all open sights)
Lyman 54 cal Trade Rifle - sabot shooter -> very good to excellent
TC Hawkens - sabot shooter -> excellent conicals -> excellent
TC Renegades (both 54's and 50's several of em) sabot shooter -> excellent and conicals - excellent
TC Renegades (with GM-LRH Barrels) sabot shooter & conical -> outstanding
Rating In-lines - all 50 cals (all scoped)
Already mentioned the CVA magbolt
Remington 700ML (2 of them) - sabots -> excellent to outstanding
Austin & Halleck 320SN (2 0f them) - sabots -> excellent
Omega (SS) sabots -> excellent to outstanding
White U-mag - sabots -> Wow! outstanding & buy everybodies account conicals -> another wow!
Knight Extreme MHC SS Barrel- sabots -> yet to be dertirmined(and I am not sure if I will shoot conicals from it yet or not)
While i really like all the inlines - for some reason when the weather gets tough or I am after elk in difficult country I always seem to migrate back to the 26" Remington as "old faithful". Mentally I know the White will do the job, and I am hoping the Knight will replace the Remington as the "trusted" one, and yet i would have know trouble if I needed to depend on the Omega. The A&H's while they are great shooters - I do not enjoy carring one of them around all in the woods all day (long and heavy - balance seems off to me).
Hope this makes sense - it does not to my wife - but to me it does...
03-17-2008, 08:12 PM
#3
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 5,180
RE: most accurate muzzleloader????
Open sights and conicals only for me.
Winchester X-150 .50cal, under 1" @ 100 3 shot group with 385 grain great plains conical "Sold long ago"
Deer Creek Northwest Rifle .45cal, Under 1" @ 100 3 shot with 225 grain powerbelt "Going on the market pretty soon"
CVA mountain stalker .50cal, 295 grain HP powerbelt, 1 1/2" 4 shot group @ 58 yards. My short range rifle.
The X-150 did awesome when i had it scoped, but you know the rules for colorado, No scopes.
Winchester X-150 .50cal, under 1" @ 100 3 shot group with 385 grain great plains conical "Sold long ago"
Deer Creek Northwest Rifle .45cal, Under 1" @ 100 3 shot with 225 grain powerbelt "Going on the market pretty soon"
CVA mountain stalker .50cal, 295 grain HP powerbelt, 1 1/2" 4 shot group @ 58 yards. My short range rifle.
The X-150 did awesome when i had it scoped, but you know the rules for colorado, No scopes.
03-17-2008, 08:27 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Staunton,Va
Posts: 3,713
RE: most accurate muzzleloader????
only gun I have worked up with loads. is my knight usak. the few 100yrds shot I have done: .452 xtp 240gr mag express sabots 2" group, (4 out of 5 shots touching) and 250gr shockwaves 1.5" 3 shot groups both over 85grs of pyrodex p
03-17-2008, 08:41 PM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
Posts: 10,917
RE: most accurate muzzleloader????
Might just be a case of golden memories improving with age, but the most accurate ML I've ever owned was a 40 caliber, 40" barrel, somewhat "Kentucky style" caplock rifle I built with a Douglas barrel from Dixie Gun Works back in the mid-60's. One day back around 1980 I didn't clean it after a shoot. Left it dirty for months. It still shoots - but not like it did. DAMN ME!
03-17-2008, 09:31 PM
#6
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: most accurate muzzleloader????
The most accurate open sighted muzzleloader I own in the Traditional catagory is a Renegade with a .58 caliber Green Mountain 1-70 twist barrel. 110 grains of Goex 2f and a .530 patched roundball and it would be hard for me to beat that rifle. The most accurate traditional in the sabot catagory is my stainless steel Green Mountain Barrel in a Renegade Stock. Very accurate with sabots. If that had a magnification scope, I think that would be a 200 yard rifle with practice.
The most accurate conical shooting rifle is without doubt the White Ultra Mag .504 caliber. Scoped or unscoped, that rifle will just plain shoot. The most accurate Sabot shooting rifle scoped,is my Black Diamond XR .50 caliber. About anything you want to shove down that barrel, it will shoot. In fact it is boring to shoot that rifle. You load it and it shoots the bulls eye.
The most inaccurate rifle I have is a CVA Stalker Carbine .50 caliber. Somedays its deadly, and other days you wonder if someone switched guns. There is no consistancy with that rifle. No matter how careful I am with it.
The most accurate conical shooting rifle is without doubt the White Ultra Mag .504 caliber. Scoped or unscoped, that rifle will just plain shoot. The most accurate Sabot shooting rifle scoped,is my Black Diamond XR .50 caliber. About anything you want to shove down that barrel, it will shoot. In fact it is boring to shoot that rifle. You load it and it shoots the bulls eye.
The most inaccurate rifle I have is a CVA Stalker Carbine .50 caliber. Somedays its deadly, and other days you wonder if someone switched guns. There is no consistancy with that rifle. No matter how careful I am with it.
03-17-2008, 10:33 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,081
RE: most accurate muzzleloader????
For me, my scoped CVA Magbolt has settled down into a very consistent shooter with at least a half dozen loads. The best group I've shot with it is just over .5" at 100 yards with 348 Power Belt's. The gun shoots under 1.5" with many loads. My White Ultra Mag is looking good too but I have not tried it with a scope and I'm still working on loads for it. So far I've found at least a couple of loads that shoot around 1.5" at 50 yards using the stock sights. I have a rear peep on the way so it should tighten up once I get that on it.
For traditional, my 50 cal Lyman GPH is hands down the most accuratemuzzleloader I have. With 460gr No Excuses and 70 grains of Pyro P I shot the tightest group I have ever shot (other than with my 7mm with an 18 power scope). The 75 yard 3 shot group measured .280" and was shot usingthe Lyman 57/17A sight setup that I have on the gun. That was one of the first loads I tried in the gun and was shocked at my good fortune. The same gun with my 54 cal GPR barrel does well also with round balls but not quite as good as the GPH.
For traditional, my 50 cal Lyman GPH is hands down the most accuratemuzzleloader I have. With 460gr No Excuses and 70 grains of Pyro P I shot the tightest group I have ever shot (other than with my 7mm with an 18 power scope). The 75 yard 3 shot group measured .280" and was shot usingthe Lyman 57/17A sight setup that I have on the gun. That was one of the first loads I tried in the gun and was shocked at my good fortune. The same gun with my 54 cal GPR barrel does well also with round balls but not quite as good as the GPH.
03-18-2008, 08:56 AM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: most accurate muzzleloader????
One of the 54 cal Hawkens I built to sell was so accurate I kept it and built another for the sale, I could some times get 2 inch groups with PRB @ 100 yds with iron sights and that is unusual in my experance.
For inlines, with a good scope I think most will shoot under an inch, but theres a lot of shooters that dont, my best is the Triump it does not seem to get that occasional flyer as oftenthat I seem to get with some.
My best conical shooter was a 22 inch barrel thunderhawk.
My worst was a CVA it shot reasonably well but broke down regular and I sure hope that there customer service has improved since then it was awful. Lee
For inlines, with a good scope I think most will shoot under an inch, but theres a lot of shooters that dont, my best is the Triump it does not seem to get that occasional flyer as oftenthat I seem to get with some.
My best conical shooter was a 22 inch barrel thunderhawk.
My worst was a CVA it shot reasonably well but broke down regular and I sure hope that there customer service has improved since then it was awful. Lee
03-18-2008, 01:50 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,314
RE: most accurate muzzleloader????
This is it for me my T/C Omega the best muzzle loader there is in my opinion I have shot 5 deer in 2 years with it. I am shooting less then 1 in groups at 100 yards 120 777 powder and 250 T/C shock waves
03-18-2008, 02:33 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: most accurate muzzleloader????
ORIGINAL: wabi
Just curious, what is the best you've owned?
To be fair let's divide the group into 2 classifications - open sights & scopes.
I've been burning black powder since the 1970s, and probably the most accurate open sight gun was a T/C .36 Seneca. I know that goes against the "bigger is better" theory for a round ball gun, but I could (and have) shot 3 shot scores of 30/3X with that rifle shooting offhand at 100 yards! Of course the sights were a lot clearer back then, seems like they all use those cheap sights that look fuzzy these days!
For scoped muzzleloaders I'd have to give #1 honors to a Remington 700 MLS (stainless). Consistant sub-MOA accuracy with a variety of bullets!
A close #2 would be a T/C Omega. One of the early ones, and it would keep them close to MOA or under with a few different loads. About 1.5 MOA with 150 gr charges!!!!!!!!!!
Think back and remember the "sweet" ones, then do like I do and beat yourself up mentally for letting go of them. [:@]
The Remington was a pain to disassemble to clean for me, and the Omega was lost to a weak moment when a newcomer in muzzleloadingasked me where he could geta good used rifle.
The Seneca went because the .45 barrel I bought for it made the balance terrible, and I couldn't use it for deer hunting. Accuracy with the .45 barrel was terrible - not the barrel quality, butthe balance was just too bad to be able to hit anything offhand. I wanted a deer rifle, so I traded the Seneca on a Hawken.
Just curious, what is the best you've owned?
To be fair let's divide the group into 2 classifications - open sights & scopes.
I've been burning black powder since the 1970s, and probably the most accurate open sight gun was a T/C .36 Seneca. I know that goes against the "bigger is better" theory for a round ball gun, but I could (and have) shot 3 shot scores of 30/3X with that rifle shooting offhand at 100 yards! Of course the sights were a lot clearer back then, seems like they all use those cheap sights that look fuzzy these days!
For scoped muzzleloaders I'd have to give #1 honors to a Remington 700 MLS (stainless). Consistant sub-MOA accuracy with a variety of bullets!
A close #2 would be a T/C Omega. One of the early ones, and it would keep them close to MOA or under with a few different loads. About 1.5 MOA with 150 gr charges!!!!!!!!!!
Think back and remember the "sweet" ones, then do like I do and beat yourself up mentally for letting go of them. [:@]
The Remington was a pain to disassemble to clean for me, and the Omega was lost to a weak moment when a newcomer in muzzleloadingasked me where he could geta good used rifle.
The Seneca went because the .45 barrel I bought for it made the balance terrible, and I couldn't use it for deer hunting. Accuracy with the .45 barrel was terrible - not the barrel quality, butthe balance was just too bad to be able to hit anything offhand. I wanted a deer rifle, so I traded the Seneca on a Hawken.
In the Open sight category, I also like Flintlocks, with open sights, but I am not the most accurate with those, nor do I shoot them extremely well, I need more practice. I have a TC Hawken .50, and I just switched the barrel to the Green Mountain Carbine. I have not shot it yet, so I don't know if it is accurate or not. I know GM is top shelf, so I am sure it will be, oh it is 1:28 twist for sabots.
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