How much surface rides the bore of a barrel? It seems to me,that just a band or so does! Would not more contact make the slug more stable?
The reason i am wondering,is,I'm new to muzzle loading and i have tried Pa.conicals and Real bullets !After the bullet is pushed down into the bore,it seems really easy to seat.Almost as if it would fall out if the barrel was tipped down??? Sabots are much tighter! I used a lubed wad between the conical and the charge of powder,but i can not see how this would cause a very good seal,for the gases,like a sabot.
It just seems like the conicals should have more contact to the rifleing!
Just wondering what others think.
I know what you mean; it kind of worries me that the conical could slip off the charge and create a dangerous situation as well. I like using them for a little extra weight over a saboted 300 grainer and they shoot well in several of my rifles but still get a little concerned about it.
If I would use them for hunting I would want to use some sticky type of lube on them to help hold them in position. Does anyone know of a good commercial lube that would do that? How would one make them a little more snug in the bore without affecting loading?
If the conical is too loose there is that possibility of it slipping off the charge. I like at least a bore sized projectile conical. In my .504 White I shoot a .5045 conical. They do not slip. A .503 I can shake back off the load. Also when you actually fire the projectile it expands the base of that conical, roundball, what ever and that in turn grips the rifling of the barrel on the patch out of the barrel.
If you ever doubt the integrity of the conical on the load, turn it over and tap the end of the muzzle on a block of wood lightly. See how far the conical moves off the load. Now I do not mean pound that muzzle end on a block of soft wood (a pine 2x4 works great). Simply take into consideration how much jarring a rifle takes as you walk through the woods. Also if you get to a point where you want to stand hunt, take a ramrod and check your projectile to make sure it is still seated. I do this all the time with sabots, conicals, and roundball.
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This is why when useing conicals it is Important to slug your barrle so you can buy a conical that has the proper fit my krb has a bore Diam. of .503.5 and my Disc Extreme is .503 so I shoot a BullShop .504 in both of them can load the krb with thumb resure buy have to use a short starter on the disc extreme , Also if you are worried about loosing presure you can use a over the powder wad and if you are worryed about them being to small you can wrap them with Teflon tape to make them larger I you shoot the Hornady GP I would not worry much they wll be tight enough , but the TC maxi hunter & Maxi Ball are small they are .501 if I remmember not sure what the REAL cONICALS ARE .
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Almost hate to share my story, as it makes it sound bad for the level of my intelligence. [:@]
I have a Lyman Plains Pistol in .50 that has shot every projectile I've tried with very good accuracy. I had a bunch of Lee hollow based minis cast up and decided to try them. Very good accuracy! It was summertime and a few days later I decided to take a walk in my hunting area just to scout around. I didn't want to go unarmed but I didn't want to carry much either, so I loaded up the plains pistol and took it. It has a belt hook that slips over your belt and carries the pistol in a muzzle-down position and I carried it in a crossdraw fashion so the muzzle was pointing behind & away from my body. Spent the day just looking over the creek, fields, and woods. When I got back to my truck I decided to shoot the pistol to unload it. Pointed it at a target, cocked it, pulled the trigger...... and "pop" (not BOOM as I expected!). Hmmmmm - misfire! Re-capped and again a "pop". Took the ramrod and put it in the barrel and there was no load in the barrel!!!!!!!! I scratched my head and wondered if I had loaded the pistol, but was sure I had. I decided the conical in an un-fouled barrel had worked it's way out the muzzle and fallen out - NOT a good situation! Thank God it was a short barreled pistol and the bullet had fallen out! A few days later I actually found the conical on one of the trails I had walked, so then I knew for a fact it HAD fallen out of the barrel. The conicals seemed to fit tightly enough to grip the bore - but they did not in that barrel at least!
Now I do the "muzzle thumping" test described with any bore sized projectile! I like the Lee REAL because it is way oversized and grips tightly. Each band (from base to nose) increases in diameter and the base enters the bore easily, but it takes a good "whack" on the short-starter to "engrave" the forward bands to the rifling.
My advice - if it doesn't take quite a bit of effort to seat the projectile - BE VERY CAREFUL!!!!!!!!
mm...One thing to consider in ML...What type barrel do you have??? Or what gun...The depth of rifling and twist rate are really what determines the type projectile that will give the best accuracy...
Mounting man - another thng to consider is that as you load a conical, the rifling cuts into the bullet making it easier to load as it slides down the barrel.
As for more contact making for a more stable bullet. I don't think that is the case. Bullet stability in flight has to deal with the diameter and length of the bullet and the rate of twist in the rifling and velocity. A ballistic technician could probably tell you better than I about that.
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How much surface rides the bore of a barrel? It seems to me,that just a band or so does! Would not more contact make the slug more stable?
Depending on the conical and conical size you choose to use - that will establish the extent of the contact to the bore. The concial must contact the bore with enough friction that it not be able move off the powder through the normal movement of the rifle. If you drop the rifle a severly jar the rifle you should check the seat of the bullet. If you have a mis-fire, cap goes of but powder charge does not, you really should check to make the projectile is still seated.
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After the bullet is pushed down into the bore,it seems really easy to seat.Almost as if it would fall out if the barrel was tipped down???
If it feels that loose it would be a wise thought to get a larger conical or as someone has suggested wrap some teflon tape on the bullet. It does not have to be TIGHT, but it should be snug enough that you should not feel uncomfortable about whether it will remain seated.
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It just seems like the conicals should have more contact to the rifleing!
When you shppt the conical the pressure of the shot will cause the bullet to obterate and make a tight seal up against the bore and the lands and grooves of the barrel. The grooves in a ML barrel are very shallow and the obteration of the bullet will seal the grooves along with the lubricant that is on the bullet.
I, personally, use a conical that is sized to fit my bore - in fact it is a slip fit conical versus the conicals that you often buy that are tapered. The smallest ring being on the bottom of the conical and the largest diameter ring being on top. These conicals also usually require a "short starter" to start them down the bore.
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What i am thinking,is,if the conical has more area,than a single tight ring[near the top]it would seal better and have more contact with the riffeling.This would guide it better ,hence,be more stable and more accurate.IMHO,The more area touching the bore,the more consistant it would fly???A conical,with contact like a sabot,would be an idea!
As to obteration,how far up the barrel does ittake, for the load pressure to cause it to start obteration? If the conical had a longer contact area,it would be less of a factor[obertation]due to more area already being where it is needed.
To increase the contact,more than one tight ringtowards the top,more like three or more?A system like the Lee Real bullets,but with a couple more tight rings??
Maybe I just think too much!!!!
conicals and other non-patched ammo
