Sabot Choice......
10-23-2007, 12:33 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 178
Sabot Choice......
Ok..I know I know. I am going to get as many different answers as responders to this post. That's okay.
I have a CVA Optima Pro - .50 cal. I have had it for a couple years and so far I have only shot Powerbelts through it. It shoots them fine. I have only fired it at 2 deer and they both tasted fine.
2 shots, 2 kills.
After reading this forumn, I have heard the same story about PB performance issues many times from many posters. I shoot the 295gr. with 100 gr. Pyrodex Pellets.
I am thinking of switching to another Sabot this year. Trying to decide what one to choose from and then if I want to shoot it with 100 or 150 gr. of Pyrodex.
My thoughts are Hornady 300gr. ssts with 150gr. Pyrodex. The Barnes also looked like it might work. Of course then a hunting friend says that "Dead Center" is the best...
Any thoughts or ideas? I simply want something I can shoot ACCURATELY out to 150 yards that will BANG/FLOP a whitetail when placed properly.
I have a CVA Optima Pro - .50 cal. I have had it for a couple years and so far I have only shot Powerbelts through it. It shoots them fine. I have only fired it at 2 deer and they both tasted fine.
2 shots, 2 kills. After reading this forumn, I have heard the same story about PB performance issues many times from many posters. I shoot the 295gr. with 100 gr. Pyrodex Pellets.
I am thinking of switching to another Sabot this year. Trying to decide what one to choose from and then if I want to shoot it with 100 or 150 gr. of Pyrodex.
My thoughts are Hornady 300gr. ssts with 150gr. Pyrodex. The Barnes also looked like it might work. Of course then a hunting friend says that "Dead Center" is the best...
Any thoughts or ideas? I simply want something I can shoot ACCURATELY out to 150 yards that will BANG/FLOP a whitetail when placed properly.
10-23-2007, 12:40 PM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
Posts: 10,917
RE: Sabot Choice......
Well, as you know, all guns are different. But I would try 300 grain Speer Gold Dots in Harvester crush rib sabots (if it's a tight barrel) or Harvester regular short sabots.
10-23-2007, 01:20 PM
#3
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
RE: Sabot Choice......
1st...no need to use 150 grains of powder...Best groups will be between 85-110 grains of loose...Remember the 45/70 killed a lot of buffalo....
Bullet selection is also dependent on how far you will be shooting....If shooting open fields a 250 SST/Shockwave or a Dead Center stye bullet is a good selection...
If shots are within 100, a bullet like the 250 or 300 Barnes MZ, Hornady XTP, Speer, Nosler Partition works...Except for the Barnes which was designed for muzzleloading these are simply .451 handgun bullets that can be bought in bulk and matched with a MMP-12 or MMP-24 sabot, whichever is right for the diameter .50 caliber bore you have....
My Knight likes 90grs of Pryodex R-S or Goex FFF and the 250 T/C Shockwave....I'm sighted 2 1/2 inches high at 100 yards and I'm 2 1/2 to 3 inches low at 150, which is my max range....For several years I used the Barnes 300 MZ, and 100grs, but the Shocwkave shoots flatter, even with less powder....Good Luck...
Bullet selection is also dependent on how far you will be shooting....If shooting open fields a 250 SST/Shockwave or a Dead Center stye bullet is a good selection...
If shots are within 100, a bullet like the 250 or 300 Barnes MZ, Hornady XTP, Speer, Nosler Partition works...Except for the Barnes which was designed for muzzleloading these are simply .451 handgun bullets that can be bought in bulk and matched with a MMP-12 or MMP-24 sabot, whichever is right for the diameter .50 caliber bore you have....
My Knight likes 90grs of Pryodex R-S or Goex FFF and the 250 T/C Shockwave....I'm sighted 2 1/2 inches high at 100 yards and I'm 2 1/2 to 3 inches low at 150, which is my max range....For several years I used the Barnes 300 MZ, and 100grs, but the Shocwkave shoots flatter, even with less powder....Good Luck...
10-23-2007, 02:10 PM
#4
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: Sabot Choice......
A 300 grain SST, the Barnes, Nosler, Speer, Parker, ... all would do the trick out to 150 yards, all but the bang flop part. Too many expect a bang/flop. You have to be willing to break them down to achieve that and at 150 yards on a deer that is not always possible. Instead concentrate of the large kill zone, put a big hole through them and their vital organs, and settle for a short walk and a blood trail.
Use loose powder and work your load up from around 80-110 grains of powder. That will get the job done on a White tail. Good luck.
Use loose powder and work your load up from around 80-110 grains of powder. That will get the job done on a White tail. Good luck.
10-23-2007, 03:17 PM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: Sabot Choice......
All the bullets mentioned above will do the job, my choice for bang flop out to 150 would be the 250 gr speer, where a lot of people run into difficulty is with the sabot there are a number of possabilitys here that are didderent thickness, due to the wide tolorance used by muzzle loader manufactures any one of them might be what your rifle likes, I always recomend getting a selection and taking the beach plug out and trying them with the bullet of choice before going to the range if they are to tight so you can not load them with out undue force or if they go down to easy then eliminate them before you go to the range if they load good but just a little bit tighter than you like they will likely work ok. by doing this and picking a good bullet for the twist and a standard load like 100gr you have a much better chance of having a good first try. Lee
10-23-2007, 03:36 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Sabot Choice......
ORIGINAL: Hoosier_Hunter1963
Ok..I know I know. I am going to get as many different answers as responders to this post. That's okay.
I have a CVA Optima Pro - .50 cal. I have had it for a couple years and so far I have only shot Powerbelts through it. It shoots them fine. I have only fired it at 2 deer and they both tasted fine.2 shots, 2 kills.
After reading this forumn, I have heard the same story about PB performance issues many times from many posters. I shoot the 295gr. with 100 gr. Pyrodex Pellets.
I am thinking of switching to another Sabot this year. Trying to decide what one to choose from and then if I want to shoot it with 100 or 150 gr. of Pyrodex.
My thoughts are Hornady 300gr. ssts with 150gr. Pyrodex. The Barnes also looked like it might work. Of course then a hunting friend says that "Dead Center" is the best...
Any thoughts or ideas? I simply want something I can shoot ACCURATELY out to 150 yards that will BANG/FLOP a whitetail when placed properly.
Ok..I know I know. I am going to get as many different answers as responders to this post. That's okay.
I have a CVA Optima Pro - .50 cal. I have had it for a couple years and so far I have only shot Powerbelts through it. It shoots them fine. I have only fired it at 2 deer and they both tasted fine.
2 shots, 2 kills. After reading this forumn, I have heard the same story about PB performance issues many times from many posters. I shoot the 295gr. with 100 gr. Pyrodex Pellets.
I am thinking of switching to another Sabot this year. Trying to decide what one to choose from and then if I want to shoot it with 100 or 150 gr. of Pyrodex.
My thoughts are Hornady 300gr. ssts with 150gr. Pyrodex. The Barnes also looked like it might work. Of course then a hunting friend says that "Dead Center" is the best...
Any thoughts or ideas? I simply want something I can shoot ACCURATELY out to 150 yards that will BANG/FLOP a whitetail when placed properly.
http://www.the-gleasons.com/Parker%20BE%20TC%20SW%20shot%20into%20ballistic%20 gel.pdf
I would stay away from the SW 250, 300g is OK because as you will see in the ballistic jel above >>sometimes<< they fragment.If ya just gotta shoot them shoot the bonded ones in 250g. A lot of folks love them, and they are one accurate bullet. I would not shoot an XTP because the jackets separate sometimes.Read some articles on bullet penetration and expansion, like this:
http://www.snipersparadise.com/tsmag/July03/july03.htm
Read Chuck Hawks site on bullet, some themes emerge, like Barnes bullets. Many of the Pro love them why? The are accurate as heck and expand like pictue perfect and are excellent.Chap Gleason
10-23-2007, 05:45 PM
#7
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 418
RE: Sabot Choice......
Thanks to the forum, I found a load that works flawlessly in my CVA Optima Pro. I shoot 100 grains of T-7 loose powder, Nosler .451 HP bullet, and MMP-24 sabots. I've killed 2 deer this year with this load and one deer was a bang-flop and the other was right behind him, only went 60 yards or so. I totally agree with Cayugad, the bang flop usually happens when you "break him down" in the shoulders. A good clean shot tight behind the shoulder will put him down as well but you may have to walk 50 yards or so. BTW one was 136 yard and the other was 180 yards. Hope this helps.
10-23-2007, 07:09 PM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,408
RE: Sabot Choice......
"I would stay away from the SW 250, 300g is OK because as you will see in the ballistic jel above they fragment."
Ballistic jell is not a live animal, neither are wet newspapers or clay. That bullet has worked very well for me.
Over 90 percent of my deer and hog kills have been bang flops or near bang flops-travel less than 10 yards. Most have been shot at <75 yards but there have been some long shots as well. Hornady 240 grain XTP bullets in the short black sabot and the 250 grain SST bullet in the tight red sabot work for me. There is absolutely no substitute for bullet placement:Every year i pass up more shots on deer and hogs than i take.
It is absolutely not necessary toshoot a deeror hog through the shoulders in order to have a bang flop.It may sound strange but my favorite shot on deer and hogs is not a broadside shot. It is thequartering away shot. Have often waited for long periods of time in orderto get that shot on an animal.
Ballistic jell is not a live animal, neither are wet newspapers or clay. That bullet has worked very well for me.
Over 90 percent of my deer and hog kills have been bang flops or near bang flops-travel less than 10 yards. Most have been shot at <75 yards but there have been some long shots as well. Hornady 240 grain XTP bullets in the short black sabot and the 250 grain SST bullet in the tight red sabot work for me. There is absolutely no substitute for bullet placement:Every year i pass up more shots on deer and hogs than i take.
It is absolutely not necessary toshoot a deeror hog through the shoulders in order to have a bang flop.It may sound strange but my favorite shot on deer and hogs is not a broadside shot. It is thequartering away shot. Have often waited for long periods of time in orderto get that shot on an animal.
10-23-2007, 08:03 PM
#9
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 164
RE: Sabot Choice......
Chap, Nice article on expansion/penetration from snipers paradise. It really makes you think about bullet performance, especially on big game. I know the precision rifle dead centers are designed for complete penetration/controlled expansion. I don't know for sure what I would use on something the size of elk or moose but I'm sticking with the 220 dead centers for now. Thanks again for the link, great article. Greg
10-24-2007, 02:57 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Sabot Choice......
ORIGINAL: gt2003
Chap, Nice article on expansion/penetration from snipers paradise. It really makes you think about bullet performance, especially on big game. I know the precision rifle dead centers are designed for complete penetration/controlled expansion. I don't know for sure what I would use on something the size of elk or moose but I'm sticking with the 220 dead centers for now. Thanks again for the link, great article. Greg
Chap, Nice article on expansion/penetration from snipers paradise. It really makes you think about bullet performance, especially on big game. I know the precision rifle dead centers are designed for complete penetration/controlled expansion. I don't know for sure what I would use on something the size of elk or moose but I'm sticking with the 220 dead centers for now. Thanks again for the link, great article. Greg
then penetration
then expansion wound channel
then shoot thru
in my opinion. I have shot the Dead Centers:
http://www.the-gleasons.com/DeadCenter340g.htm
they were not accurate in my gun, and since accuracy is #1, I couldn't use them. From all I have read they are a great bullet choice.
Chap