Semisane

Here's a really interesting article on round ball effectiveness on game.

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/TraditionalHPML2.html

I've never shot a deer with RB. If you have, what was your experience? Range, caliber, charge, results?

cayugad

The furthest I shot a deer with a roundball was 80 yards and an additional 20 feet approximately. I was shooting 80-90 grains of Pyrodex RS and a .530 roundball. The deer was standing broadside to me. I shot and dropped him where he stood. The ball went through him and killed a doe, breaking her spine,standing behind the first one, dropping that one in its tracks as well.



Roundball is a very effective deer projectile. If shot with in 100 yards or closer, there is no reason to fear using a roundball. Place that thing in the rifle place. They get great expansion, and usually a complete pass through. Also they make a mess inside the body cavity.

The deer last year was 52 yards, shot length wise with a .54 caliber roundball. Again, dropped in her tracks. The ball broke her neck, penetrated her brisket, through the heart, out the stomach, and broke a rear lead before heading off into the brush.

With that .58 caliber you want to shoot, you will clean their clock.

frontier gander

BANG FLOP.



Toby Bridges follows the money trail.

If you want the truth in how effective they are, Start reading history!

serious redneck

I shot a doe at about 60yds with a .54 TC, 227 grs RB/110 Black powder. took out the top of the heart and lungs. complete pass through, she ran about 40 yds. First deer I ever killed. I picked up a A&H mountain riflle with the fast twist for conicals. After I shot that with a large conical and 110 grn 777, I decided I should have gotten the round ball barrel. Steel but plate, kicks like a mule.

Semisane

Understood.

But in that particular article he's not pushing anyspecial product - just making the case for the superiority of heavy conicals over balls.

He says a word or two about Lee REALs and TC Maxi's, but doesn't even mention Harvester bullets - one of his sponsors.

serious redneck

I saw a series of photos from a video made back in the 70's of a guy shooting a mature bull Bison with a .58 round ball. one shot through heart and lungs from close range. The bull reared up like a stallion and fell over dead on its back. didn't move 15 feet.

gleason.chapman

I switched from RB to sabot in my TC HawkenFL because of one I lost. it was two years ago, I was sitting on a stool with my FL on a drive, a deer came running right toward me at 20 yards. I shot her square in the brisket. She dropped right there. The drivers were still pushing deer out so I reloaded and followed the drive thru. When I turned around the deer had gotten up and took off, I thought she was dead. I was using a .50 cal TC FL with a .490 RB from Hornady, .015 patch. There was no blood trail. I never recoved the deer.Last year I switched to sabots and 300g Gold Dot. I would say on broadside shots your fine with a 50 cal RB, on deer drives likewe do in January in PA they are not fine. I think a .54 cal is a better rifle because of the increased weight of the ball, I am looking for one. I have seen several other RB hit deer get away, I would say poor shot placement is the key factor.
Chap Gleason

eldeguello

From that article: "While most hard-core traditional round ball shooters will try to work in some kind of "magic" when defending the patched ball as a big game projectile (rejecting physics), the fact is when it comes to delivering the energy needed to insure a clean kill, the round ball will repeatedly fall short. Most knowledgeable big game hunters accept that 800 foot-pounds of energy (at the distance of the target) should be considered the minimum reasonable energy level for harvesting deer-sized game. The load for my old .50 caliber T/C "Hawken" dropped below that level at about 54 yards.

However, every whitetail I punched behind the shoulder at ranges of 40 to 75 yards tended to go down within 50 yards of being shot. (For the first time, I actually got to see a muzzleloader shot deer hit the ground!)"


Let's look at what this guy said here. (Just being able to write down your experiences and opinions does not make one an expert!!)

[/align]
For one thing, he uses "foot-pounds of energy" as a means of determining what is powerful enough to kill deer. This is his first mistake, as energy alone is NOT a good indicator of what a particular load will do. This is especially true for large-diameter, round pure soft lead balls! For example, a .220 Swift firing a 48-grain bullet at 4110 FPS will deliver much more energy than what he says is minimum. But, we all know that if that light, frangible HV bullet strikes heavy bone, like a shoulder or hip joint, it is going to blow a shallow crater near the surface of the animal, and not penetrate deep enough to reach the vital organs. Thus it is possible to lose the animal, even though the the energy level is much higher than 800 FT/LB (there are many other "experts" who claim at least 1,000 FT/LB is necessary to kill a deer!)


[/align]Yet we see that even this same expert was able to drop deer within 50 yards of where theystood when hit, even while shooting that piddly .45-cal., 128-grain round ball! What it really comes down to is this: when shooting ANY rifle at a deer, it is WHERE you hit it that is important, much more than WHAT you hit it with! Granted, there are some bullets, like those delivered by the .22 rimfires, which are barely adequate for jackrabbits and porcupines. We don't recommend these for deer or larger game shooting. But ANY pure, soft-lead round ball of .50 caliber or more, driven by80+ grains of FFg or equivalent powder chargethat strikes a deer in a vital spot anywhere from the muzzle to at least 100 yards will drive deep enough into a deer to kill it, even if it only has 400 or less FT/LB of energy remaining.

[/align]

[/align]Notice I said "strikes a deer in a vital spot". Shoot it in the foot, and it may escape! NO amount of energy will compensate for poor shooting. A miss is still a miss, even with a 106mm recoilless rifle!

Do we need anything more than this forDEER?? NO!! However, elk and moose are a different question. Yet, at reasonabl ranges, the .54 using PRB has PROVEN ADEQUATE for these critters too!

Now, the conical bullet will retain velocity and energy better than the PRB. BUT, the PRB is launched at a MUCH HIGHER velocity than conicals. Hence, at ranges up to 100 yards or so, the PRB is easier to hit with due to flatter trajectory. So in this particular regard, it is kind of a trade-off as to whether one wants a flatter trajectory or more energy at extended ranges. So there are advantages to each type of bullet, but BOTH will kill adequately.


[/align]


[/align]

lemoyne

I have taken deer,bear andboar in fairly good numbers with PRB almost all with a home built copy of a 35.5 inch barreled 54 cal Hawken,the load it shoots best and that I use for most game was 120gr RS a 535 ball and a ticking patch. This was after trying every cal from 40 to 62 the most effective cal. it will drop deer on the spot a good part of the time with a good heart or double lung hit. Lee

nchawkeye

I've killed 50-60 with a round ball...I've used a 40, with 60 grains FFF, a .45 with 75-80grs FFF and a .54 with 80-100grs FFF...I now use the .54 with 80grs FFF...

My longest shot was 125 yards with the .54 and 80grs, hit the buck in the shoulder blade and he dropped...Most of my shots are from 25-60 yards, hit low in the lungs, the deer runs 35-75 yards and piles up...

The first deer I ever killed with a flintlock was in 1978, I hit a doe at 40-50 yards with a .440 ball and 75grs FFF...She was hit in the shoulder blade and dropped, the ball went through the shoulder blade, spine, the opposite shoulder blade and was just under the hide on the opposite side....

The first edition of Longhunters Society record book had the record grizzly bear...It was shot with a .54 using 120grs FF...The bear was shot at 100 yards through the lungs, it ran about 80 yards and piled up...The ball was recovered on the off side, under the hide...

I would make a poor spokes person for a name brade company...I make my own balls from a Rapine bag mold, buy my patching by the yard from WalMart, make my own lube from beeswax, castol oil and Murphy's Oil Soap...Buy my flints in bulk, and use Goex black powder...My flinters aren't factory made, one was a custom made rifle and I made the other...See, I can't really sell much of anything, don't use bullets, sabots, substitute black powder, store bought cleaning products....

Toby's just trying to make a living...He'll even blow up a rifle to prove a point!!!