Inconsistant Groups

RHanbaum · 08-20-2007, 01:56 PM

Wondering if anyone has experienced inconsistant groups with American Pioneer Powder? I shoot a 50cal encore with 100grs, APP with 250 grain Shock wave. First round at 50 yds was on, the second and third were way off, almost off the paper. Re-shot with 100 grs of pyrdex select pellets. The three shot group was on. I did use T/C boreb utter between rounds. Any ideas as to the inconsistant results? Thanks

outdoorslover · 08-20-2007, 02:12 PM

No idea... I have used Pyrodex and APP in my Omega and have had similar results-- even better results with APP. I can not get great groups with 100 grains of it in my gun. 110 grains is the magic amount for me.

I posted a 3/4 inch 3 shot group from 100 yards shot with APP a while ago. It works well for me and I prefer it.

Keep testing. All guns are different.

sjsfire · 08-20-2007, 02:13 PM

Sounds to me like you Encore likes the Pyrodex over the APP. That'd be my guess. Try swabbing between shots with a 50/50 mix ofrubbing alcohol/windshield washer mix or plain rubbing alcohol. At first I'd sy it was the bore butter but it shot better when you changed powders. Not a pro muzzleloader shooter, only been shooting one for 8 months but I've learned some. Maybe a more seasoned shootercan give you some help.

cayugad · 08-20-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: RHanbaum

Wondering if anyone has experienced inconsistant groups with American Pioneer Powder? I shoot a 50cal encore with 100grs, APP with 250 grain Shock wave. First round at 50 yds was on, the second and third were way off, almost off the paper. Re-shot with 100 grs of pyrdex select pellets. The three shot group was on. I did use T/C boreb utter between rounds. Any ideas as to the inconsistant results? Thanks

When shooting APP you are not supposed to use any kind of lube in the barrel. Also Bore Butter is not recommended when shooting sabots. There is no need to grease the barrel, the sabot does that for you.

I would take some hot water and get that bore butter out of your bore. After that run a good coat of gun oil down the bore. This Encore is a high quality steel barrel it is not like the rifles of old that had to be seasoned to keep them from rusting. Remember, T/C sells bore butter so of course they are going to recommend it.

If you still feel the need to use bore butter, be sure to remove all traces of it from the barrel before you load and shoot. When shooting APP do not swab between shots. Just load and shoot. Also I too have experienced inconsistant accuracy with APP.

When using Pyrodex RS, swab the barrel clean before loading. After you fire the first shot, swab the bore with a 50/50 combination of car windshield washer fluid and isopropyl alcohol. Work the bore is short strokes, and after a damp one, then a couple of dry patches. Then load and shoot again.

It does not surprise me that the rifle shoots better with Pyrodex RS.So I would throw the bore butter in the garbage, and use pyrodex. Swab between shots, and see what happens...

wabi · 08-20-2007, 02:39 PM

You should use no lube with APP. I've tried round ball loads with the patches lubed with bore butter, and they were very erratic. With dry patches it shot fairly well.Actually there is no need to swab between every shot with APP. It leaves a residue in the bore that acts as a lube according to their information. I usually swab only after 8 or 10 shots and see little loss of accuracy. What I did notice with APP was a huge shot-to-shot variation on an extremely humid day. At normal relative humidity here (around 40%) it shot very well. At 90+% humidity I was shooting all over the target.

rem 700 · 08-20-2007, 04:27 PM

Sounds like you need to experiment more with charge weights, and do not lube between shots. Pyrodex will require a wet-dry patch between shots with solvent, and APP you can usually get away with several shots without cleaning.

Wolfhound76 · 08-20-2007, 04:32 PM

My experience with the powder now known as APP (formerly clean shot) was it was extremely inconsistant. I never experienced what you did though. Every range session the groups were in a different spot on the paper. Adjust the sights and the next sesssion they'd be somewhere else.

RHanbaum · 08-21-2007, 08:02 AM

Thanks again for everyone's advice and suggestions. Cayugad you were right on the money with what the folks from APPP told me. The only thing they added was that APP/Shky Gold likes a heavier bullet. They suggested that I go up from 250gr to 300gr. I will give that a try. Oh, and the bore butter, well it is history. Again, thanks for all the info. Have a great season, shoot straight and keep your powder dry, Rodney

meh101465 · 08-21-2007, 08:57 AM

trowing out the bore butter as i type ..thanks

cayugad · 08-21-2007, 09:07 AM

Bore Butter works real good as a conical lube or patch lube. And for those that protect their bores with Bore Butter.. well it's their rifle. Do as they like. I used bore butter for many years with mixed results. Finally I believe the stuff built up so bad in the barrel of my Renegade that the accuracy went from very good to very verybad. But, I NEVER used bore butter in an inline rifle other then to lube a conical bullet.