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Old 06-09-2007, 12:38 PM   #1
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Default Lee REAL Bullets - An Interesting Finding

The target below was shot on 6/4/07 with 250 grain Lee REALs over 100 grains Pyrodex. The first two shots were with regular "RS", the last three were with "Select RS". I usedCircle Fly Vegtable Fiber wadsunder the bullets.The wads had beensoaked with Lee Liquid Alox, and then dried. The bullets were lubed with CVA "Grease Patch" lube.

The interesting thing is that the two shots with regular RS had the exact same velocity of 1612 fps(I verified they were separate readings on thechrono) and the three with Select RS were allover 100 fps faster.

The second thing is, I shot the same 100 grain load back in the middle of May (see post "Dang Flyers! Why? Why? Why?") with thesamelot ofRS powder used in the first two shots here, and got and average velocity of 1510,100 fps slower than in June. The differences were (1) the temperature was about 10 degrees cooler inMay, (2)Iswabbed between each shot in May and did not in June, and (3) the May bullets were lubed with Lee Liquid Alox and dried.




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Old 06-09-2007, 12:51 PM   #2
 
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Default RE: Lee REAL Bullets - An Interesting Finding

Maybe a lower charge would tighten them up? I was only using 70 grains triple7 with the 200 grain REALS i shot in my .45
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Old 06-09-2007, 12:57 PM   #3
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Default RE: Lee REAL Bullets - An Interesting Finding

I used to shoot a lot of REAL conicals and never tried to push them all that hard. About 80 grains was the max powder charge I used. But that group does show some promise...Good shooting!!
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Old 06-09-2007, 03:36 PM   #4
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Default RE: Lee REAL Bullets - An Interesting Finding

People think I am crazy but IMO humidity is the biggie in ML shooting. Followed by temperature. If you had 100 fps velocity difference, I would attribute that to relative humidity more than temperature. IMO the relative humidity changes the moisture content(due to the nature of ML propellants), this change, again IMO changes the burn rate of ML propellants. Some more than others. If you change the burn rate then you change the pressure, which obviously changes the velocity. All this affects POI, which is the biggest complaint ML shooter's have. "Why does my rifle shot here today, and three inches low and left tomorrow". I hear this all the time.

When sighting my rifle in, I do it under the worst conditions. High humidity and low temperatures. IMO this regulates the amount of powder my rifle will burn under the worst conditions(IMO under better conditions your rifle will burn more powder-hence this will change pressure). I have found my best loads match the amount of powder my barrel will burn. I get the most consistent results that way. If I do this then I take one more variable out of the game(how much powder I can burn). This leaves only one variable which is the MC of the powder.

If you notice target shooter's shoot light loads. This IMO is because they are burning all the powder. Some think they shoot lighter loads because of recoil.I do not think it is because of recoil. I am pretty sure if a target shooter could get a more accurate load from a larger powder charge, they would do it. Tom.
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Old 06-09-2007, 05:55 PM   #5
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Default RE: Lee REAL Bullets - An Interesting Finding

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ORIGINAL: HEAD0001

People think I am crazy but IMO humidity is the biggie in ML shooting. Followed by temperature. If you had 100 fps velocity difference, I would attribute that to relative humidity more than temperature. IMO the relative humidity changes the moisture content(due to the nature of ML propellants), this change, again IMO changes the burn rate of ML propellants. Some more than others. If you change the burn rate then you change the pressure, which obviously changes the velocity. All this affects POI, which is the biggest complaint ML shooter's have. "Why does my rifle shot here today, and three inches low and left tomorrow". I hear this all the time.

When sighting my rifle in, I do it under the worst conditions. High humidity and low temperatures. IMO this regulates the amount of powder my rifle will burn under the worst conditions(IMO under better conditions your rifle will burn more powder-hence this will change pressure). I have found my best loads match the amount of powder my barrel will burn. I get the most consistent results that way. If I do this then I take one more variable out of the game(how much powder I can burn). This leaves only one variable which is the MC of the powder.

If you notice target shooter's shoot light loads. This IMO is because they are burning all the powder. Some think they shoot lighter loads because of recoil.I do not think it is because of recoil. I am pretty sure if a target shooter could get a more accurate load from a larger powder charge, they would do it. Tom.
Makes sense about the target shooters. As for humidity affecting powder, I know that is the case, just based on hunting in wet/snowy conditions with FLs. If you get just aflake of snow in the pan, your cooked, and many times when thegun won't go off the powder is "mush". Happens frequently with FLs, especially in rain/sleet. Inlines are better, but they suffer similar problems, I think the reason theygo off is because of the hot charge of the 209 primer even with damp powder, it just won't have the power of dry powder. That is a real good idea Tom to test your load/sight in during the worst conditions. My problem is I don't have covered sight in ranges. Chap Gleason

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Old 06-12-2007, 08:21 PM   #6
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Default RE: Lee REAL Bullets - An Interesting Finding

That is a very respectful group. By the way - what were you shooting? In-line, perc., flint? Open sights or scope? Either way, if it were a critter you were shootin at, you would have some meat in your freezer.
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Old 06-12-2007, 09:00 PM   #7
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Default RE: Lee REAL Bullets - An Interesting Finding

Hey bronko22000, that group was shot with a Lyman Mustang in-line with209 primers from a solid bench with a Leupold scope set on 9X.

You're right, it's a respectable group for critters, but not so respectable for targets from abench with a9X scope.

Actually, it's the best 50-yard group I've ever gotten with 250 grain Lee REAL bullets. It's also the first group I've shot with Liquid Alox treated fiber wads. I put the wads in a 50/50 mixture of Lee Liquid Alox & regular rubbing alcohol, then put them in the sun to dry.

I'm wondering if the treated wads account in the 100 fps increase in velocity over the last session with the same load and untreated wads.
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Old 06-13-2007, 08:03 AM   #8
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Default RE: Lee REAL Bullets - An Interesting Finding

I would be thrilled to get that group with my T/C Hawkin .50 with open sights. I have been using that same bullet with mine and have found that they work better with between 60 and 70 gr. of powder. Back when I tried it with more than that the bullet was all over the place. But I suppose with your scoped inline, you probably could get better groups than that.
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:19 AM   #9
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Default RE: Lee REAL Bullets - An Interesting Finding

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I would be thrilled to get that group with my T/C Hawkin .50 with open sights. I have been using that same bullet with mine and have found that they work better with between 60 and 70 gr. of powder. Back when I tried it with more than that the bullet was all over the place. But I suppose with your scoped inline, you probably could get better groups than that.
I would be happy with that alsoat 50 yards with TC hawken FL open sights. Chap Gleason
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Old 06-13-2007, 01:03 PM   #10
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Default RE: Lee REAL Bullets - An Interesting Finding

Hey TUK101,

Quote:
I have been using that same bullet with mine and have found that they work better with between 60 and 70 gr. of powder. Back when I tried it with more than that the bullet was all over the place.
Have you tried them with wads? I couldn't get the REALs to shoot very well until I started putting wads under them. If you haven't tried wads, shoot me a private message with a mailing address and I'll send you a dozen each of the treated and untreated to try.

I have a pack of 1,000 1/16" .510 diameter Circle Fly Vegetable Fiber wads and will send some to anyone else who wants to try them.
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