Well the process of test loads and slugs for Colorado has started.
While shooting yesterday I started to think about all those guys who spit and swab after each shot while practicing. During a hunting situation you would not have time to spit and swab. You would be lucky to get 2 shots off most 3.I am also taking into account that the spit and swab method will give you the best groups. Question- Why would you sight your gun in for hunting with this method? Would it be more sensible to sight in the way you hunt, no more than 3 shots at a time then clean the bore and start again. Started testing no excuses and like what I see at 50 yards so far.
While swabbing the barrel is a good way to work up an accurate load since technically you want to keep all contributing factors to accuracy about the same.. your correct. When I work my final hunting load I like the idea that I can load a second shot without swabbing. When I have my load worked up, I will often then shoot as many shots as I can without swabbing, just to see how the rifle reacts.
Although consider this.. if you place your first shot correctly, and then take the time to swab the barrel properly and reload, this should give the animal a chance to react to the hit, go some distance or lay down. I have yet to need a second shot on an animal with a muzzleloader. So swabbing for the second shot is not all that far fetched.
With those No Excuse Conicals, if your shooting a good powder charge under them and then putting that large chunk of lead in the right place, I would worry more about where I left my knife then whether I need to swab the barrel. The destructive power of large conicals is impressive to say the least.
__________________
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck, screaming Yahoo, with a big smile on your face."
In my opinion (and I have lots of them I'm told), When I swab I am trying to replicate my first shot from a clean barrel. My first shot and hopefully my second shot from a swabbed barrel will hopefully be very close to one another.I really don't like the idea of fouling a barrel before hunting. Mainly because I'm a little on the lazy side and don't like having to clean a rifle for no real good reason. As for the 2nd and 3rd shots well I haven't had the need for it (ML or CF), so taking the time to load up properly isn't really an issue. Heck by the time the smoke clears they (deer) don't usually offer up a decent shot anyways.
With my Omega, swabbing between shots helps me keep a 5 shot group under 2 inches at 100 yds. Admittedly,this has not been the case with my flintlock (yet) @ 50 yds,but I am working on that issue.
To swab or not to swab, I guess it really boils down to your own personal prefference. (waffle)
__________________
Work is the evil one must endure for life's pleasure's.
Well the process of test loads and slugs for Colorado has started.
While shooting yesterday I started to think about all those guys who spit and swab after each shot while practicing. During a hunting situation you would not have time to spit and swab. You would be lucky to get 2 shots off most 3.I am also taking into account that the spit and swab method will give you the best groups. Question- Why would you sight your gun in for hunting with this method? Would it be more sensible to sight in the way you hunt, no more than 3 shots at a time then clean the bore and start again. Started testing no excuses and like what I see at 50 yards so far.
I use bore butter in the field to SWAB--I pre make up patches with a little bit of bore butten rubbed into a patch about 6 or 8 and put them in a baggie---and only consider that I am going to get 1 shot, exactly like bow hunting except you got 50 yards more range effectively (my max shot with a bow is 25 yards and I am very good at that range 6 or 6 in kill zone every time). I hardly ever have to have a 2nd shot and there is always adequate time to swab and shove one down the barrel. I have even shot two deerafter getting a buck and the doe he was following came back to see what happen to him---after I climbed down from the tree. So just count on a single shot, most of the time, say 90% you will not need the 2nd shot, and most of the time I don't even load since it is boom flop in most cases the last 3 years. Chap Gleason
__________________
Chapman Gleason
Purcellville Va
http://www.the-gleasons.com
While swabbing the barrel is a good way to work up an accurate load since technically you want to keep all contributing factors to accuracy about the same.. your correct. When I work my final hunting load I like the idea that I can load a second shot without swabbing. When I have my load worked up, I will often then shoot as many shots as I can without swabbing, just to see how the rifle reacts.
Although consider this.. if you place your first shot correctly, and then take the time to swab the barrel properly and reload, this should give the animal a chance to react to the hit, go some distance or lay down. I have yet to need a second shot on an animal with a muzzleloader. So swabbing for the second shot is not all that far fetched.
With those No Excuse Conicals, if your shooting a good powder charge under them and then putting that large chunk of lead in the right place, I would worry more about where I left my knife then whether I need to swab the barrel. The destructive power of large conicals is impressive to say the least.
Agree with you 100%, they won't need the 2nd shot, boom flop.
Chap Gleason
__________________
Chapman Gleason
Purcellville Va
http://www.the-gleasons.com
In my opinion (and I have lots of them I'm told), When I swab I am trying to replicate my first shot from a clean barrel. My first shot and hopefully my second shot from a swabbed barrel will hopefully be very close to one another.I really don't like the idea of fouling a barrel before hunting. Mainly because I'm a little on the lazy side and don't like having to clean a rifle for no real good reason. As for the 2nd and 3rd shots well I haven't had the need for it (ML or CF), so taking the time to load up properly isn't really an issue. Heck by the time the smoke clears they (deer) don't usually offer up a decent shot anyways.
With my Omega, swabbing between shots helps me keep a 5 shot group under 2 inches at 100 yds. Admittedly,this has not been the case with my flintlock (yet) @ 50 yds,but I am working on that issue.
To swab or not to swab, I guess it really boils down to your own personal prefference. (waffle)
Oh ya that's the other reason I do it.Geez chapman you're taxing my memory. I haven't read that (TC)manual in dang near 30 years. By the way I just went and looked at it and that quote is on page 58 of mine.
__________________
Work is the evil one must endure for life's pleasure's.
Oh ya that's the other reason I do it.Geez chapman you're taxing my memory. I haven't read that (TC)manual in dang near 30 years. By the way I just went and looked at it and that quote is on page 58 of mine.
Yep, once I started swabing between shots my groups shrunk by 1" to 2" most of the time, at 100 yards with my Omega.Yes, the manual is good and once you know what it says with some experience you can follow it. I think it isdifficult for a new person to learnjust from the manual. I think it is easier to learn from a buddy. Chap Gleason
__________________
Chapman Gleason
Purcellville Va
http://www.the-gleasons.com
Learning from a buddy. Agreed
Only problem here is that nobody shoots them that much.[&o]And it has been a self / www taught lesson plan for me and I have people like you and cayugadto thank for those lessons.
__________________
Work is the evil one must endure for life's pleasure's.
Learning from a buddy. Agreed
Only problem here is that nobody shoots them that much.[&o]And it has been a self / www taught lesson plan for me and I have people like you and cayugadto thank for those lessons.
I think the web is a super resource and I have learned a tremendous amount from Cayugad and Sabotloader they have a reason for everything they do and it is from the school of experience so I really appreciate their wisdom. I am happy that I have been a help to you, I sure was perplexed about this MLing sport about 4 years ago. Hunting iseasy, stand selection is easy. Powder selection was easy, once I learned loose was better for working up a load. Bullet performancehas been along road for me, and I have an MS in math and a minor in physics, so I should understand the basic physics of bullet performance, bullet construction, penetration, expansion, sectional density, terminal performance. But it is not clear cut on bullet performance on 'thin skined' game. I think I am going to start keeping a shooting journal, since I have read, that theFinn Aagaard kept a log of every bullet he shot, rifle, load, casing, wind conditions, etc.These were the inventors of the Bear Claw, the forerunner of the current"bonded bullets". Very interesting stuff I also like to talk to reloaders at gun shows and pick their brain onhow they learned about bullets and reloading and bulletperformance. They love talking about it, I have learned a lot talking to them.There seems to be an absence of good books on bullet design, bullet performance and basic ballistics for ahunter, maybe the military has one. If anyone out there has a favorite book onany of these subjects I would love to hear about it. I believe I have got most of my knowledge from American Rifleman, OutdoorLife, ML Guns and Shooting and of course the web.
Chap Gleason
__________________
Chapman Gleason
Purcellville Va
http://www.the-gleasons.com
Sighting in for Hunting?
), When I swab I am trying to replicate my first shot from a clean barrel. My first shot and hopefully my second shot from a swabbed barrel will hopefully be very close to one another.I really don't like the idea of fouling a barrel before hunting. Mainly because I'm a little on the lazy side and don't like having to clean a rifle for no real good reason. As for the 2nd and 3rd shots well I haven't had the need for it (ML or CF), so taking the time to load up properly isn't really an issue. Heck by the time the smoke clears they (deer) don't usually offer up a decent shot anyways.
