FF Black Powder

tkstae · 11-27-2006, 09:15 AM

I was wondering if anyone would know why my Lyman 54 cal. has havingtrouble with FF powder. By trouble I mean that it will fire the first time it is loaded no problem. After that nothing. I have to back the nipple out and pour in FFF to get it to fire. I bought two cans of FF when I first got the rifle thinking that was what a 54 cal. prefered. Sure would like to use them up if I could. Any Ideas would be great. Thanks

jaybe · 11-27-2006, 09:27 AM

Sounds to me like you must be getting enough crud/burned powder/soot at the site of the flash hole to prevent the fire from the cap from getting into the second load; maybe even back into the flame channel itself. It's also possible that the channel is partially blocked by a small amount of accumulated corrosion or rust so that it only takes a very small amount of crud to prevent to fire from geting through.
I would take the nipple out and clean it (the channel) very thoroughly with a good solvent. If you can access the channel from the side (like through a small screw hole, maybe?) do that too. Use a pipe cleaner if possible, and maybe a nipple pick to make sure the entire channel is as large as it's supposed to be.
In the future, make sure this area is completely cleaned and rustproofed after each shooting session, and especially when storing it for a while.

cayugad · 11-27-2006, 09:35 AM

I really suspect it might be the nipple on the rifle. Is this the original Lyman Nipple? If it is, change it out to a stainless steel hot shot type. Second, when I hear such a report I wonder how the rifle was prepared to be shot. You are swabbing all thecrud and such out the barrel, and also popping three caps through the nipple prior to shoot to clean and clear the fire channel, and also carbon up the inside which helps the sparks bounce through it better.

When you think of it, put a patch on your jag. Push that to the bottom of the breech and pop a cap. Pull the patch and make sure there is a definite burn mark on that patch. If not, pop a cap through the nipple and do the same thing over again. When you see a definite burn mark on that patch, that means the fire is making it through the rifle nipple and bolster.

Next time you load the rifle, turn the lock, side downward and with the flat of your hand, slap the lock three times moderately. No need to hurt yourself mind you, but make sure that powder is falling under the bolster. Next take your nipple pick and pick the nipple. Some rifles never need to be picked and some demand to be picked. Make sure you are pushing through the nipple and just not hitting the bottom of the nipple with the pick. This makes sure that the fire will go through the nipple. Also it will make sure nothing from the cap before is blocking the nipple. Also use a quality cap. The hottest are the RWS in my opinion. Also the CCI magnum caps are good.

Try that and see if it does not make a difference. I shoot Goex FFg out of my Lyman all the time.

Triple Se7en · 11-27-2006, 09:37 AM

Take the nipple off and warm water-blast inside the muzzle over a sink - or outside using the garden hose & hose gun. You'll probably see crud coming out the nipple hole. If the ML has a cleanout screw nearby,remove that too. Both of these holes can also be cleaned using stiff pipe cleaners and Q-tips dipped in solvent.The nipple areashould be power-flushed after every use. FFF powderis better for lowering the odds of crud-buildup. It gets under the nipple easier& burns cleaner. I use it in calibers as large as 58.

Also buy a hotter nipple. Get Red Hots or Spitfires sold at Cabelas. Your size is the one markedItalian. Use hot #11 caps also. Buy RWS Dynamit Nobel 1075 Plus caps. They come in a red& green tin.

tkstae · 11-27-2006, 10:31 AM

Thanks for all the tips guys. This has been a problem since the first time I fired the rifle. I first thing I changed was the nipple. I went to a red hot. My lyman has the bolster screw in it so I run hot soapy water through it as well a the nippleat the end of the day. I've owned 54's in the Renegade and the TC Hawkins,and runhundreds of rounds through them without every having this kind of problem. I'm not saying they haven't misfired because they have, like all do from time to time. Heck that's what makes them so unique. I'm thinking this problem just might be the fact that this Lyman doesn't handle ff because of its design. I've talked to other shooters who have said that FF is a problem in some rifles regardless of caliber. It's easy enough to stick with fff, just one of those things that bug a guy.

frontier gander · 11-27-2006, 10:49 AM

my dads italian made hawken does that. you have to hold it a certain way when pouring the powder down the barrel, if you dont, the powder dont go into the drum and therefore he gets a cap burst only. He found out the hardway this september when he shot at a deer and only had the cap go off. Pulled the nipple and zero powder was in the drum. I dont care much for the made in italy guns after i bought a 1851 confederate navy 44cal pistol and after every shot i would have to look for the wedge pin and put the barrel back in place. That was 1 scary pistol! But i would load up, take your first shot, reload and then pull the nipple and see if theres powder, my dad always has to load his rifle at leaning to the right at a sharpe angle.

tkstae · 11-27-2006, 11:01 AM

Cayugad:You said you use ff out ofa Lyman all the time with out any problemsso that make me think i'm doing something wrong. As soon as I get out again I will try those tips you suggested about the patch and popping the cap as well as the others. When at the range I have poured 30 grains of fff down first, followed by 60 grains of the ff. It fired everytime. I'm a tightwad, but even that is to much word for me to do just to burn up the FF. Thanks

Triple Se7en · 11-27-2006, 11:02 AM

I pour slowly with the rifle muzzle straight up - then grab the muzzle with the palm of my hand and turn left & right kinda fast three or four revolutions - sothe powderhas to enter every cavity in that muzzle. Your powder may also be old or contaminated. That's why it's good to have a 2nd muzzleloader to test it when issues arise. 777 is the finest grade I've found in FFF. I recommend it or real black FFF like Schuetzen or Goex. Another sub-powder to try is Pyrodex P (pistol/FFF)