OK - I know that the folks at American Pioneer say that swabbing between shots isn't necessary . . . . . But over the years, I have gotten in the habit of swabbing and have gotten some pretty tight groups with this technique. The last couple of days I have spentabout 8hours at the range playing with my new Genesis. After conducting a series of controlled experiments, I'm here to report the following:
1. Not only is swabbing not necessary for the JSG; it actually introduces a variable into the process that is not a good thing. If I swab and only use one dry patch, I get a pretty good group about 2" high at 100 yards. If a use two dry patches, the point of impact consistently shifts to 6" high at 100 yards. Not swabbing at all produces a great group that is 3" high at 100 yards.
2. Swabbing causes the bullet to actually go down the barrel harder than not swabbing - just the opposite of Pyrodex and T7.
3. The first shot out of squeaky clean barrel will hit high (7") consistently. After that, shots will group very tight at 3" high if no swabbing is done. Solution: go afield with a fouled gun. My understanding is that the JSG is fairly non-corrosive, so I'm thinking this won't be a big issue. Wouldn't want to leave it dirty for six months, but I'm sure six days wouldn't hurt anything - particularly in a stainless barrel.
Overall, I like this stuff. Fast, clean, accurate. But the old "rules" for loading in-lines don't seem to apply here. Anybody else played with this stuff to any extent? Thanks. Roskoe
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A man has got to know his limitations . . . . .
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck, screaming Yahoo, with a big smile on your face."
I was thinking about this, over a glass of very old scotch; about how these techniques change over time. Back when I first started muzzleloader hunting, we used to swab the barrel with bore butter to store the gun - and swab with bore butter in between shots - using lead conicals. Later, when I got my first in-line (Knight Disc rifle), I talked to Randy Brooks at Barnes bullets - and he advised to go afield with a fouled gun. Reported that accuracy was best from the third to seventh shot, using Pyrodex pellets and their Barnes Expander MZ bullet. No swabbing or cleaning between shots. I didn't like the idea of leaving the house with a dirty gun, but the technique nonetheless produced some good groups.
Later, when I got on this board, there was a poster named "Preacher" who talked about swabbing the barrel in between shots. The idea was to try to create a more consistent condition from shot to shot in the barrel. This worked really well with Pyrodex pellets and various sabot loads. And it provided for a point of impact that was pretty consistent from the first shot out of a clean barrel to subsequent shots. Cayugad came up with the perfect swabbing solution - windshield washer fluid and iso alcohol mixed 50/50. I could now go afield with a squeaky clean gun.
And now, once again, things appear to have changed . . . . . .
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A man has got to know his limitations . . . . .
I think the Preacher you are thinking about wasat the old CVA Board. I don't recall him ever being here using that name. He was in poor health back in late 2003. On this very day, he may be teaching God how to recover patches or jagsstuck down the bore in a way never discussed here.
You're right - "Preacher" was on the old CVA board. His insights were a little ahead of their time, it seemed; I still have a copy of his recommended cleaning procedures I printed from the bulletin board back in '02.
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A man has got to know his limitations . . . . .
I just picked up a pound of the JS gold. DoI use the same by volume load that I was using with Pyrodex. I was loading 150 G with Pyro. Should I start load development again back at 100G with the new Gold or can I start hevier, say 120G. Thanks for the advice on not cleaning between shots. My Omega shots great when swabed between shots, but with the new stuf it sounds like a time saver and less carosive. I see some range time just around the corner, I hate when that happens !!!!!!!!
What do You Guys think of the 5000 or 6000 shots between cleanings thing ???
5000 shots between cleaning or swabbing? While that is one heck of a claim, I would still suggest to clean your rifle at the end of the day of shooting. Whether you wil need to swab will be up to your rifle.
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck, screaming Yahoo, with a big smile on your face."
For those switching remember APP powders have a different base,there for we should expect many differances.
I have found the same thing out about swabing the lwss often you swab the more consistan it shots.I clean with hot water when I get home thats all. Also #11 caps donot work well dispite some claims in my guns on the other hand the musket caps do,I do not find much differance in 209's they all work well with this powder. Sabots on the other hand need to load faily tight to loose and they shoot fairly erattic;the same sabots that load easy and shoot well with RS won't work ,had to get tighter ones,also seat very firmly and consistantly. Lee
I always presumed Shockey was the same as APP -- just screened to accept more uniform, slightly smaller granules -- also filtered to reduce dusty-type particles that would normally tag-along in every jug. If the Shockey granule color is different than APP, that's only dye spray to differenciate it.
Jim Shockey Gold Revelations
