Scales - True or False?

philnie · 06-08-2006, 12:52 AM

Hi Guys,

I know to use volume powder charges for ML - but I've seen a number of posts that state one should measure the charges too to gain the needed edge in accuracy assurance? What's the volume powder charge error here? A couple grains? A couple tenths of grains? A couple twenty grains?

I've got some MR reloading gear now - but need a very high quality scale to match - is it time to buy a high end digital scale, and if so which one do you guys recommend?

thanks!
phil

cayugad · 06-08-2006, 08:31 AM

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=713372

A couple months ago, I purchased this digtial scale on sale. It still is on saleas I notice. So far I have been very pleased with the scale. Although it is solely dependent on battery for power, they are a common found battery. It seems easy to use and very accurate. For the little I need a scale this one fits the bill very nice. Also I can take it anywhere. Just make sure the scale is on a solid level surface when using..

Underclocked · 06-08-2006, 09:43 AM

If you want the cat's meow, my understanding is http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=70&min=0&dyn=1& is the one. But the little scale Cayugad mentioned is good 'nuff. I have one of those and a PACT II - would sooner use the little Frankford Arsenal model. It's handy and seems to be pretty accurate.

You do understand that anygiven grain volumetric charge will generally weigh less (sometimes considerably less depending upon powder involved)? 100 grains volumetric of Triple7 FFg will WEIGH ~80 grains. So determine your load weights byweighinga few volumetric charges of EACH powder first. Use an average of those volumetric weights as your target weight. Then be careful to note, when people are talking about charges, whetherthey are referring to true weight or volumetric equivalent.

Some guys can throw volumetric charges of their chosen powder that would be inside a grain or two for consistency. Others seem to have trouble keeping them inside a 5 grain spread. How much you gain in accuracy by weighing will be a variable, but you definitely will not be at any disadvantage by weighing.

One very important variable with charge performance is seating pressure. You should attempt to achieve the same seating pressure with every load. Hard to do by feel so you'll have to calibrate your arm.

Tahquamenon · 06-08-2006, 10:31 AM

A scale to measure BP or substitutes is really not required. Always measure by volume.

That said,I do use a scale sometimesto "optimize" my best volume measured loads because the scale does not alter (hopefully). That way when it comes time to get ready for a hunt and a particular load, all i have to do is weigh out my first volume developed loads and put them in speed loaders.

For range shooting, I have also weighted out my pet loads and put into 20-30 film cannisters for quick and consistant loads.

But to re-visit. Black powder and Substitutes are measured by volume not weight.

Tahquamenon

philnie · 06-08-2006, 12:25 PM

Tahquamenon
Yes, underdstood. I was thinking along those same lines - use a good quality scale to premeasure volume based loads to ensure a more consistent shot to shot powder charge. I'm a complete ML newbie so I'd like to assist my powder charge "muscles" and throw technique as best I can here.

Underclocked
And yes to you as well. Your input is exactly what I had in mind. Being a newbie I don't know what my powder charge throw accuracy will be using the typical volume measure tools - I believe I followed your advice to buy one of the T/C clear volume measures ... thanks again. Noted on the need to apply consistent shot to shot pressure on the components in the barrel too! I was planning on getting some 'practice' using the bathroom scale to start!

I'm starting to get the feeling that load nirvana will be when one finds the right combination of components, ML cleaned/prep'd the same, and everything loaded the same such that the "small" variations in each aspect have minimal effect on accuracy, etc ...

Thanks to underclocked and cayugad for portable scale recommendations too!

cheers,
phil

Tahquamenon · 06-08-2006, 01:41 PM

I will add that go with a quality volume measure in at least 5 grain increments.

Tahquamenon

Wolfhound76 · 06-08-2006, 03:00 PM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Tahquamenon

A scale to measure BP or substitutes is really not required. Always measure by volume.

That said,I do use a scale sometimesto "optimize" my best volume measured loads because the scale does not alter (hopefully). That way when it comes time to get ready for a hunt and a particular load, all i have to do is weigh out my first volume developed loads and put them in speed loaders.

For range shooting, I have also weighted out my pet loads and put into 20-30 film cannisters for quick and consistant loads.

But to re-visit. Black powder and Substitutes are measured by volume not weight.

Tahquamenon

What's the difference of checking your thrown charges on a powder scale and taking the average weight of a number ofvolumecharges and weighing charges to that weight?

Underclocked · 06-08-2006, 04:24 PM

I don't think he said there was a difference Patrick. He suggested weighing is NOT required and it isn't, but to get the utmost consistency......

Tahquamenon · 06-09-2006, 06:13 AM

No difference. Whichever volume measure optimized via weight that produces the best accuracy.

Don't get me wrong, I don't run for the digital scale all the time, but I have been able to make very consistant loads by weighing out loads after they were first verified by volume.

Tahquamenon

Wolfhound76 · 06-09-2006, 07:22 AM

I was just wondering if you thought there was a difference. I didn't see one but you never know what people think unless you ask them.

All I do anymore is weigh powder. The only thing I use the volume measurer for is to get the powder I'm weighing from the flask to the scale. I set it a few grains less than what I want and trickle the last bit in. I started doing this in 2004 and my groups have really shrunk. Now I don't even take a powder measure to the range. I weigh up a few different charges to try and that's all I use.