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First time shooting a muzzle loader

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First time shooting a muzzle loader

Old 05-09-2006, 10:56 PM
  #1  
Spike
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Morgan Hill, Ca
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Default First time shooting a muzzle loader

I got my White Ultra Mag about 2 weeks ago and just was able to get out this past Saturday and shoot a muzzle loader for the first time. I was a little aprehensive because I had no experience at all in loading or firing one. Well, I must say, everything went really well with no problems what so ever. The rifle came with 20 460 grain conicle bullets. I bought some 245 grain Powerbelt bullets along with APP tf powder and CCI #11 magnum primers. I started with 80 grains of powder and the 460 grain bullets at 25 yards. All 3 rounds were in the bull. I then got brave and set a target at 100 yards. Using the same load and bullet the group was about 6 inches and about 7 inches below the bull. Does that sound about the right trajectory for that weight bullet? I then increased my powder to 90 grains and the next few rounds were about 2 inches higher. I then tried the 245 grain Powerbelts with 90 grains of powder. They were about the same height as the 460 grain but about 3 inches to the right. This seems kind of wierd to me but maybe it was because I had fired about 15 rounds and the barrel was getting warm. All in all I really enjoyed it and will do it again real soon. I was amazed how much less recoil with the lighter bullet. I have only the iluminated iron sights that came with the rifle but plan to install a scope with detachable mounts to sight it in since I cannot use a scope in Oregon. Any input from you experienced ml shooters would be appreciated. What do you think of my powder and cap selection? What do you think of Powerbelt bullets for deer hunting?
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Old 05-10-2006, 08:08 AM
  #2  
Fork Horn
 
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Default RE: First time shooting a muzzle loader

Sounds like your powder and projectile selection was a good indication of what you can expect your gun to do.
The different point of impact for bullets weighing significantly different isn't surprising, Things like barrel "whip", recoil, etc figure into that, and you may find them hitting quite differently - especially at 100 yds or beyond.
Powerbelts - there's a couple of different opinions on them. Some have good success with them on animals and some have had dismal failures in their ability to penetrate heavy bone and still get into the "boiler room". I've decided to NOT try them on game, but go with a bullet like an XTP or other that has a more consistent track record.
Keep reading posts and you'll get a lot of info.
Welcome to the sport of muzzleloading!

IM jaybe

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Old 05-10-2006, 10:18 AM
  #3  
Dominant Buck
 
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Default RE: First time shooting a muzzle loader

ORIGINAL: silverstreak

I got my White Ultra Mag about 2 weeks ago and just was able to get out this past Saturday and shoot a muzzle loader for the first time. I was a little aprehensive because I had no experience at all in loading or firing one. Well, I must say, everything went really well with no problems what so ever. The rifle came with 20 460 grain conicle bullets. I bought some 245 grain Powerbelt bullets along with APP tf powder and CCI #11 magnum primers. I started with 80 grains of powder and the 460 grain bullets at 25 yards. All 3 rounds were in the bull. I then got brave and set a target at 100 yards. Using the same load and bullet the group was about 6 inches and about 7 inches below the bull. Does that sound about the right trajectory for that weight bullet? I then increased my powder to 90 grains and the next few rounds were about 2 inches higher. I then tried the 245 grain Powerbelts with 90 grains of powder. They were about the same height as the 460 grain but about 3 inches to the right. This seems kind of wierd to me but maybe it was because I had fired about 15 rounds and the barrel was getting warm. All in all I really enjoyed it and will do it again real soon. I was amazed how much less recoil with the lighter bullet. I have only the iluminated iron sights that came with the rifle but plan to install a scope with detachable mounts to sight it in since I cannot use a scope in Oregon. Any input from you experienced ml shooters would be appreciated. What do you think of my powder and cap selection? What do you think of Powerbelt bullets for deer hunting?
First off.. I am glad you had a great time shooting. Those first experiences are important to fire the flame of muzzleloading. How bad did you think the rifle was to clean by the way? Do you not agree that the balance of that rifle and trigger is most impressive?

As for your choice of powder, APP IMO is not the best powder for large conicals. I have not had good luck shooting large conicals with APP or Pinnacle. Now if you were shooting sabots, then the APP can and has produced impressive results for me. I would look for some powder like Pyrodex P. Pyrodex P is a 3f grade powder commonly used in black powder pistols. If you read your manual they also suggest that Pyrodex P is a good choice. You will find some excellent results using the faster burning powder and excellent accuracy.

Another great powder for the Ultra Mag is Triple Se7en 3d & 2f. Many of the White Rifle shooters like the 3f. Again, they get more pressure, faster burning time and better accuracy. Both of them will work real well.

The powder I like is Goex 3f black powder. I shoot a lot of that. On my next order I will get a couple pounds of Swiss 3f and use it strictly in the White Rifle. I find the Swiss 3f a little too hot for my tastes in some of the other rifles.

Something else I would get is some fiber wads. TOTW sells them. Get the 1/8 thick ones. They will work real well for you. I bought the 1/16th thick and found that I get better accuracy shooting with two of them between the powder and the conicals.

Last, why would you want to trust your expansion and fragmentation to a powerbelt that light, when you have a rifle that will shoot the 460 & 495 grain (legal conicals) so well. I shoot them with 80 grains of Triple Se7en 3f or Goex 3f and the accuracy is exceptional.

Some other non scope options are a Lyman 57 SME peep sight. Also there are other peep sights out there that will work on theright. They should increase your long range accuracy.

Also do not be too harsh on your first time out results. You really have not found your sweet load and it takes time to learn the rifle.. Just keep shooting more and see if your groups do not tighten up.

Good luck with your rifle and keep us posted on your shooting trips.
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Old 05-10-2006, 04:01 PM
  #4  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Default RE: First time shooting a muzzle loader

I would suggest you try about 80 grains by volume of FFg Triple Seven behind some nice conicals (not PowerBelts). Check out Bullshop's 500 grain N373 bullet. Sabotloader has done a lot of scopemount base testing and so have I. I agree with him that the modified Weaver Grand Slam S415 bases mightbe the best choice ofbasesfor the rifle. Warnes work well butthe rear base needs a bit of modification IMO. The S415 pair would only require an additional screw hole to the one you are going to use as the frontbase. E-gunparts has them cheap.
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Old 05-10-2006, 08:16 PM
  #5  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Default RE: First time shooting a muzzle loader

First welcome to the wacky world of MLing. You
have choosen a fine weapon to start with. You
will have to try different powders & loads to find
the "sweet" spot that your ML likes. I would never
try to kill anything but paper with the powerbelts.
If you want to try something lighter I'd suggest the
300gr. Hornady XTP-MAG-HP or the 300gr. Barnes
Expanders. Both of these bullets perform extremely
well in my Omega. Good Luck..Good shooting.
Danny

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Old 05-10-2006, 08:42 PM
  #6  
Spike
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Morgan Hill, Ca
Posts: 54
Default RE: First time shooting a muzzle loader

Thanks for all the comments and advice, it sounds as if it's pretty much unanimous regarding Powerbelt bullets. I'm sure glad to know that so I can try others that have been suggested before hunting season. And Cayugad, yes the rifle is very easy to clean and is as well balanced as any of my center fire rifles I own, that really surprised me. The trigger pull was about 4.5 pounds and I had it adjusted to about 3 pounds, I have always favored a lighter trigger pull.
I bought the APP powder because I was told by a gun dealer in San Jose that this was the latest and greatest, and not knowing any better I decided to give it a try. I will take your suggestions and give the other powders you mentioned a try.
Thanks for all the help.
Dick
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Old 05-10-2006, 09:07 PM
  #7  
Giant Nontypical
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
Default RE: First time shooting a muzzle loader

ha, oh well, hmmmmmmm,POWERBELTS are greatest thing i have seen for HAWKINS FLINTLOCK on deer.i even put my maxi-balls to rest after at least 35 years.the nice thing about powerbelts is you can keep your loads LIGHT.recoil is not very good thing using open sights.for the high powered in-lines shooting hot loads, i agree, dont use powerbelts.BUT on my hawkins .50 cal flintlock, ole sproulman will use light loads and powerbelts on deer.i use roundballs now for practice and save powerbelts for the buck.my favorite is 295/348 powerbelt with around 80 grs. of geox 2f.have fun and enjoy.
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Old 05-11-2006, 08:19 PM
  #8  
Dominant Buck
 
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Default RE: First time shooting a muzzle loader

Just so you are aware, if you do go with the Lyman 57 SME/SMET (target model) peep sight, and your rifle has a laminate stock. I was advised that sometimes some slight alterations to the stock are necessary to make the peep sight fit properly. Those with the B&C synthetic stocks claim that they did not have to alter the stock sightly...

The peep sight and a good conical load in a non scope state would be a fantastic shooting combination. I still might get the Lyman 57 SMET peep and have a gun smith install it since I do not like to mess with modifications of any kind to my rifles, but I want to see how well I can do with the fiber optic sights. So far the fiber optics have done real well.
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Old 05-11-2006, 10:13 PM
  #9  
Spike
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Default RE: First time shooting a muzzle loader

A friend of mine hasa White Model 97 that he bought several years ago. He has a scope mount with detachable rings and also has a fold down peep sight at the rear of the mount. He cannot remember where he bought it and there is no markings as to who the manufacturer is. This seems as if it might be a good setup for sighting in the rifle and then removing the scope to hunt. What do you think Cayugad or anyone else. Another question is if I install the Lyman peep can I still install a detachable scope mount?
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Old 05-11-2006, 10:21 PM
  #10  
Dominant Buck
 
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Default RE: First time shooting a muzzle loader

The Lyman peep goes on and off with two set screws. So you remove the scope with QD rings, and then screw the Lyman Peep on. There should be no problem taking the scope off and puttng the peep on in those circumstances. The peep should remain close, but I would check it anyway.
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