ELKampMaster

I agree with the need to use "point of aim" as a useful and meaningful term to avoid misleading one's self or others.

"Shot placement" occurs off of a benchrest after two minutes of preparation, sandbagged rests, no fatigue, even and very controlled breathing, and a 15 second trigger pull with warm fingers. This is the "laser beam" that most folks trot out as being the answer to all things. Too bad the "laser beam" isn't actually the same thing that gets unleashed on our precious wildlife out in the field under actual hunting conditions.

"Point of Aim" addresses the fact that this is hunting not target range practice on the old 100 yard bullseye and that when bench rest dependent folks get out of the laboratory and into field situations their laser beams don't always hit game as infallibly as what we hear claimed on this forum.

BTW, when "shot placement" don't live up to the realities of "point of aim" is where marginal rounds and "not using enough gun" for any given game are more likely to fail to get the job done and the resultant misadventures never get told in the bar nor mentioned on this Forum. For those who will put forth the myth that more robust cartridges can't be shot accurately, I don't buy it at all. I refuse to give in to the American fascination with fashionably succumbing to recoil sensitivity.

EKM

skeeter 7MM

This just further more states the point of shoot for the vitals, does it not? If you can't place a shot on a smaller target would it not make more sense under "field" conditions to aim for the larger - vital - target. Taking out the capacity to live by shooting the lungs will allow you more margin of error under these field conditions and put blood on the ground allowing you to collect your prize in short order. I am sorry but I have yet to see a elk live or go to far with both lungs deflated, so when I am shooting at an animal I will take the highest % shot to ensure a good, clean & ethical kill. I also think shot placement may be the wrong wording but I asimulate it to only taking those shots the will return the highest & odds of collecting your harvest...this can only be determined by ones experience, choice of bullet/caliber and abilities in the field.

I will add that I never felt the report of a gun under "field conditions", but if I can't accurately shoot a gun in practice then I don't feel it is good option for me personally to carry.

BeaverJack

Anybody that cain't shoot enuff gun for the task at hand has got no sympathy from me. He/she either scales up his skills and rifle or stays home. We got only so much game and plenty of hunters to step into the boots of the wimpy ones that cain't shoot proper guns for the tags they tote. Anybody can shoot a '06. That's why the military used it in WWII. Now we got wimpy urban-raised soldiers even according to the big shots in the Pentagon, so we need a baby bullet. Could be one reasin why we got are ass handed to us in Nam. Whinny cry babies totin' pop guns instead of hard ass grunts totin' meaningful hardware.

skeeter 7MM

BJ I won't argue the point of shooting enough gun for the task, however there are those who can not shoot every gun comfortably under the sun for one reason or another. I am one of these guys after 3 shoulder operations and waking up most mornings with no feeling in my left hand, I simply can no longer do things stupidily. I used to use a 300 wby for big game (moose/elk) but after a range session and 2 days of needing help to tie up my shoes...it wasn't a very solid choice for me PERSONALLY to keep using that gun. Hey I am a man who can admit I am beat and wished to god when the coach said just use the needle to get through the period I would have said screw off! I will pay for my years of ignorance and one of the prices is loss of ability to handle big jars to my shooting shoulder. Any hew, I went back to using a 270 and limited myself to mostly deer hunting...I did use this gun on a elk and a few moose hunts but limited my shot choices and distances. After my last surgery I started to recondition myself and have moved up to a 7mm Rem mag for my all around big game rifle..right now I can handle this gun very effeciently in practice and in the field. Hey who knows in a few years i may be able to go higher but after shooting a 300 RUM this fall for a 5 shot groups I know that isn't anytime soon, so I have reserved myself to the 7 rem mag for the time being and being proficient with it as possible. I would think my ability to shoot a 7 rem mag accurately both in practice and under field conditions would be a better choice then something bigger and not being able to handle the gun, wouldn't you agree??? Then again maybe I am not man enough to hunt your neck of the woods!!! Fine by me, I can handle my woods just fine and really could give 2 sh@ts what others think!! Hunting is all about personal experiences, standards, goals and abilities. I have always adhered to what I have in abilities and limitations, which IMHO is far better then a big bang...but it is all a matter of opinion. You have yours and I have mine

seadog

One could say "it's not how much bang you got, it's knowing how to use the bang you got".

ELKampMaster

Skeeter,

Though some may disagree, I feel the 7mmRemMag and 30-06 are about equivalent especially with the use of premium bullets. In fact 7mmRemMag/30-06 is the minimum we allow in our elk camp Given your injuries, a 7mmRemMag is a handful, the pounds of kick may not be too high but the velocity of the kick is pretty sharp.


Seadog,

Problem is everyone claims to be an expert with what they got, thus making "pop guns" okay to use on big game like elk and then when they're in the elk woods and bad things happen because of it, we never hear or see any of it here on this forum. Yeah, I was going to limit myself to broadside shots, but it was the last day of the season, others had filled their tags, and they were moving away at an angle and I just....... and it got away, or maybe I missed. (LOL) Uh huh, that's why its best to "take enough along" in the first place, then one isn't tempted to do the wrong thing.

EKM

skeeter 7MM

EKM, I agree it isn't shy on pop but it works excellent for my terrain/situation but more importantly I can handle it accurately and have 100% confidence in my abilities with this rifle. I always have matched the bullet to the quarry, for me that is a given. I simply stated my point as not all people are sissy's or worried about recoil there are reasons for some hunters choice. I still think a gun that will/can be practiced with is a better option than a big gun with minimal practice/confidence, etc. Of course a min., bullet choice and standard/limitation must be factored in. I will agree the walk and talk line is very fine and those stories of crossing that line are rarely told, to bad but really all we can do is state opinions, experience and chose our own path. In the end it is the guy in the mirror who has to make the decision and live with that decision.