I was just looking at a 5 page thread on the 30-30 on the Firearms board and it reminded me of an old Mexican I met many years ago up in Leadville who hunted elk for 30 years with a Winchester 94 30-30. I spoke with one of his grandsons, and he said: " Yeah, Old Papa used that thing forever, and his wife says he never lost one." I was stunned, but then thought: Hell, if the indians could kill ' em with a stone-tipped wooden arrow, why not a 30-30? Any of you guys know anyone ever used one on anything bigger than a deer?
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I have a brother-in-law that uses one,Mdl 94 30-30.He has used it for years,it was his dads and he has never lost an elk that I know of.
I have also used the 30-30 for elk,about 9 years ago I used one for what I called the Poormans Grand Slam.I used the 30-30 for every tag I held,including Antelope,blackbear,deer and elk.
I don' t condone the use of the 30-30 for elk,I think their is better elk rifles out there,it will do the job in the hands of a very skilled hunter.If you stalk close and take neck(under 50 yds) and close behind the shoulder shots(under 75 yds) it will put them down.
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I know of two " older" fellers that still use nothing but a 30-30. One of the guys doesn' t hunt elk, just whitetails in Ks., but the other guy is here in Colo. and he kills elk on a regular basis with it. Both still use open sights too. It will do the job, and has for years for them, but there is better " elk medicine" available.
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A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.
Using a 30-30 on an animal as majestic as an elk is just plain irresponsible in this day and age. One old timer said that 30-30' s have killed more elk than any other rifle. Well they' ve also wounded more elk than any other rifle. Back years ago thats all they had and so it was appropriate to use it but it was also appropriate to do surgery without washing up. We know better now and have better equipment.
Anybody who says they' ve killed many elk in many years without losing one is either full of it or has Las Vegas luck. I' d say buy a lottery ticket and get ready to be rich with that kind of luck. I don' t know very people who haven' t lost one at least once using the latest and greatest rifles more or less a 30-30.
There is an old lady in my home town who refused to stop for a new stop sign. The local sherriff would pull her over and she' d just say she was there before that damn stop sign and she wasn' t gonna stop for it. She t-boned a car 2 years ago, killed herself and a little girl in the other car. If you haven' t got the moral of the story yet I' ll tell you. You can' t be so old and stubborn you don' t change with the times. Just because it used to be ok doesn' t make it ok now. A 30-30 is NOT and elk rifle in anyway, shape or form. The anti movement is relatively new and we have to be much more responsible in our actions. Get a clue or lose the privilege.
Beans,
Set your search to 365 days, type in " 30-30 and elk" and read away. That rag is not worth the time to respond. Judging, from your earlier posts I think you already know the gist of it. Sorry -- its all already been said.
Never Go Undergunned, Always Check The Sight In, Perform At Showtime,
EKM
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Never Go Undergunned, Always Check The Sight In, Perform At Showtime!
Good judgment comes from bad experience! Learn from the mistakes of others; you' ll never live long enough to make them all yourself!
I would imagine that there are plenty of irresponsible hunters out there with man portable, shoulder fired, mini howitzers to keep folks writing about them for the next ten years. I' m talking about those that take the long shots under bad conditions and wound or miss game no matter what they are hunting. To call it irresponsible to use a .30-30 for Elk is at best a blanket statement attempting to cover all bases without consideration of the circumstances. Under 100 yards there is no reason that the .30-30 shouldn' t be adequate for Elk, under certain circumstances it is probably better suited than some of the faster rifles in .30 caliber as well. Stalking skills, shot placement and yes, the ability to back off from a questionable shot are far more important than bullet weight and velocity.
Never go under gunned? Tell that to the old Elephant hunter that killed over a thousand Elephants with his .260 magazine rifle in the days when the .500 Nitro Express was considered the minimum required for the job.
No, I have never hunted Elk and if ever given the opportunity I will not be using a .30-30, but whatever I use you can rest assured I will be able to shoot it under any circumstances and will get as close to my target as possible before touching off a round.
** " Imagine" is a good choice of a verb to kick off that first paragraph.
** Please name 3 real elk hunting circumstances where a " slow 30 cal" is superior to a " faster 30 cal" .
** African governments have dealt with ilk like the " old elephant hunter" -- they don' t allow anything under .375 and in some cases nothing under .400 -- wonder why?
** BTW, Why do you look to be " given" an elk hunt opportunity? They are readily available....
** If " given" an elk hunt opportunity, then what' s your non-30/30 rifle of choice and why NOT use the 30-30?
Never Go Undergunned, Always Check The Sight In, Perform At Showtime,
EKM
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Never Go Undergunned, Always Check The Sight In, Perform At Showtime!
Good judgment comes from bad experience! Learn from the mistakes of others; you' ll never live long enough to make them all yourself!
While I certainly don' t consider the 30-30 to be an adequate elk rifle in a center fire modern cartrige, in the right hands it could proove to be plenty adequate. I also wouldn' t reccomend the 30-30 to any one asking if they should use it on elk because the vast majority of people wouldn' t have the dicipline it would take to use the 30-30 and if they are asking that tells me that they probably have never hunted elk before.
For a person that hunts in deep dark timber and stalks to within less than 100 yards it would have enough power to get the job done well. Much like bow hunting and muzzle loader hunting, they would need to have the dicipline to pick their shots and respect the range limitations that he or she would be imposing on themselves. Essentially they would be ML hunting with a center fire rifle.
A 30-30 with a 170 grain nosler partition would certainly have much better killing ability than a traditional ML shooting a lead round ball backed by 80 or 90 grains of BP.
While it certainly isn' t for the majority of people out there hunting elk, in the hands of the skilled few that have the dicipline it takes to use the 30-30 it would be plenty enough gun for elk.
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"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency........... Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."
good answer bb...the 1st time i went elk hunting my buddy handed me his grandpap 30-30. i almost pooped my pants- i knew there was no way i' d use that thing to even attempt a shot over 100 yrds. luckily[X(], we hardly even got outta the truck. i don' t hunt no more with that guy...
ElkKampMaster, I never implied that the .30-30 was SUPERIOR to a higher velocity rifle, only that if used properly it is more than adequate to the task.I am tired of the elitism which accompanies the mindset of bigger is better, especially from people (I do not mean you personally since I don' t know you) that imagine that the larger cartridge will make up for their own inadequate skills both as a marksman and as a hunter.
African Governments set the limits of minimum cartridges for Dangerous game due to the irresponsible actions of Hunters and Professional Hunters alike. In short they got tired of scraping up the bloody remains of people that took shots at too long of a range then suffered the consequences of having to track a wounded and highly P.O.ed animal under less than ideal conditions. BTW the reason the guy used the smaller rifle is because of an accident with a much larger gun that left him with a severe concussion, headaches for the rest of his life and permanent hearing loss not to mention a flinch when using a larger bore that screwed up his accuracy with the bigger guns.
By " Given" the opportunity I mean having the disposable income to invest for a hunt and the time to do it at the same time. Raising an 8 year old Granddaughter takes precedence over things I might prefer to do. I have standing invitations to both Colorado and Montana from friends for exactly that purpose but I cannot in good conscience do so.
Why would I personally not use a .30-30? Because my own stalking skills and physical condition (knees are shot) preclude my getting around in that kind of country in the fashion neccesary to get within the range I consider to be that of a .30-30 I do know my own limitations which is something many people never admit to. Since I will probably never be able to take such a hunt, I don' t even worry about what I might use. Here in North Georgia I use both a .30-30 (Winchester 94) and a .280 Remington (Ruger #1) for Whitetail and Black Bear depending on the area I intend to hunt on a particular day.
30-30 for Elk!?
