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Old 12-03-2008, 01:20 PM   #21
 
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Default RE: DO NOT HUNT WITH SAGE MOUNTAIN OUTFITTERS

WELL HUNTINGSON WHILE I AM SURE YOUR HUNT WAS NOT THE DREAM HUNT THAT YOU HAVE IMAGINED IT TO BE I DON'T BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE TOLD THE WHOLE STORY HERE!!!!!!!! THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE EXTREME CROSS WIND THAT WAS BLOWING THAT NIGHT. I HAVE HAD THE GREAT EXPERIENCE TO BE ON SEVERAL HUNTS WITH CAL STUCKY ( OVER 35 ) AND HAVE NEVER HAD A BAD ONE. I AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE COBB RANCH AND THE WAY TO HUNT IT. I WAS ALSO ON A NEIGHBORING RANCH THE EVENING THAT YOU WERE AT THE COBB AND I KNOW WHAT THE WIND WAS LIKE. I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS NIGHT WITH CAL EXTENSIVELY. I BELEIVE THAT SHOULD THE TRUTH BE TOLD CAL SAID THAT TAKING A 45 YARD SHOT IN A STIFF CROSS WIND (THAT NIGHT 30 TO 60 MPH) WOULD BE UNETHICAL. AS YOU BASH THIS MAN AND HIS WIFE AND BUSINESS YOU ARE THE HUNTER AND YOU HAVE ALL OF THE POWER IN YOUR FINGER TO LET THE ARROW FLY. I HAVE KNOW DAN ANTILLA MY WHOLE LIFE AND KNOW FOR A FACT IF DAN SAYS DON'T SHOOT THEN IT WAS NOT AN ETHICAL SHOT IN YOUR MIND YOU KNOW THAT IT WASN'T OR YOU WOULD HAVE LET FLY. I HAVE BEEN BOWHUNTING ALL OF MY LIFE AND HAVE HAD THE PLEASURE OF TALKING TO 100'S OF HUNTERS WHO HAVE HUNTED WITH SAGE MOUNTAIN OUTFITTERS YOU ARE THE ONE AND ONLY HUNTER THAT HAS COMPLAINED. I HAVE NO DOULBT THAT THERE WERE SOME ISSUES BUT TO SLANDER A MAN AND HIS FAMILY AND BUSINESS LIKE THIS IS APPALLING TO ME ESPECIALLY SINCE I KNOW OF THIS EVENT ON THE FIRST NIGHT OF YOUR HUNT. I WOULD NOT HAVE SHOT OVER 20 YARDS THAT NIGHT DUE TO THE CROSS WINDS THAT WERE RAGING ON THE FRONT RANGE THAT NIGHT.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:04 PM   #22
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Default RE: DO NOT HUNT WITH SAGE MOUNTAIN OUTFITTERS

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ORIGINAL: NOTREDAME

WELL HUNTINGSON WHILE I AM SURE YOUR HUNT WAS NOT THE DREAM HUNT THAT YOU HAVE IMAGINED IT TO BE I DON'T BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE TOLD THE WHOLE STORY HERE!!!!!!!! THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE EXTREME CROSS WIND THAT WAS BLOWING THAT NIGHT. I HAVE HAD THE GREAT EXPERIENCE TO BE ON SEVERAL HUNTS WITH CAL STUCKY ( OVER 35 ) AND HAVE NEVER HAD A BAD ONE. I AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE COBB RANCH AND THE WAY TO HUNT IT. I WAS ALSO ON A NEIGHBORING RANCH THE EVENING THAT YOU WERE AT THE COBB AND I KNOW WHAT THE WIND WAS LIKE. I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS NIGHT WITH CAL EXTENSIVELY. I BELEIVE THAT SHOULD THE TRUTH BE TOLD CAL SAID THAT TAKING A 45 YARD SHOT IN A STIFF CROSS WIND (THAT NIGHT 30 TO 60 MPH) WOULD BE UNETHICAL. AS YOU BASH THIS MAN AND HIS WIFE AND BUSINESS YOU ARE THE HUNTER AND YOU HAVE ALL OF THE POWER IN YOUR FINGER TO LET THE ARROW FLY. I HAVE KNOW DAN ANTILLA MY WHOLE LIFE AND KNOW FOR A FACT IF DAN SAYS DON'T SHOOT THEN IT WAS NOT AN ETHICAL SHOT IN YOUR MIND YOU KNOW THAT IT WASN'T OR YOU WOULD HAVE LET FLY. I HAVE BEEN BOWHUNTING ALL OF MY LIFE AND HAVE HAD THE PLEASURE OF TALKING TO 100'S OF HUNTERS WHO HAVE HUNTED WITH SAGE MOUNTAIN OUTFITTERS YOU ARE THE ONE AND ONLY HUNTER THAT HAS COMPLAINED. I HAVE NO DOULBT THAT THERE WERE SOME ISSUES BUT TO SLANDER A MAN AND HIS FAMILY AND BUSINESS LIKE THIS IS APPALLING TO ME ESPECIALLY SINCE I KNOW OF THIS EVENT ON THE FIRST NIGHT OF YOUR HUNT. I WOULD NOT HAVE SHOT OVER 20 YARDS THAT NIGHT DUE TO THE CROSS WINDS THAT WERE RAGING ON THE FRONT RANGE THAT NIGHT.
You weren't there.[:-]

Why is it bad for someone to give a bad review or warning about a bad experience about an outfitter just because that outfitter makes a living off of it? They should hold up their end of the deal, make things right when they don't, or accept bad reviews.

Sure there are two sides of every story, but to discount his story because the wind was stiff while you were hunting a ranch over....give me a break[:'(]. Wind is one thing in nature that certainly isnt a constant, surely even you know this.[&:]
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:37 PM   #23
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Default RE: DO NOT HUNT WITH SAGE MOUNTAIN OUTFITTERS

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ORIGINAL: NOTREDAME

WELL HUNTINGSON WHILE I AM SURE YOUR HUNT WAS NOT THE DREAM HUNT THAT YOU HAVE IMAGINED IT TO BE I DON'T BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE TOLD THE WHOLE STORY HERE!!!!!!!! THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE EXTREME CROSS WIND THAT WAS BLOWING THAT NIGHT. I HAVE HAD THE GREAT EXPERIENCE TO BE ON SEVERAL HUNTS WITH CAL STUCKY ( OVER 35 ) AND HAVE NEVER HAD A BAD ONE. I AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE COBB RANCH AND THE WAY TO HUNT IT. I WAS ALSO ON A NEIGHBORING RANCH THE EVENING THAT YOU WERE AT THE COBB AND I KNOW WHAT THE WIND WAS LIKE. I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS NIGHT WITH CAL EXTENSIVELY. I BELEIVE THAT SHOULD THE TRUTH BE TOLD CAL SAID THAT TAKING A 45 YARD SHOT IN A STIFF CROSS WIND (THAT NIGHT 30 TO 60 MPH) WOULD BE UNETHICAL. AS YOU BASH THIS MAN AND HIS WIFE AND BUSINESS YOU ARE THE HUNTER AND YOU HAVE ALL OF THE POWER IN YOUR FINGER TO LET THE ARROW FLY. I HAVE KNOW DAN ANTILLA MY WHOLE LIFE AND KNOW FOR A FACT IF DAN SAYS DON'T SHOOT THEN IT WAS NOT AN ETHICAL SHOT IN YOUR MIND YOU KNOW THAT IT WASN'T OR YOU WOULD HAVE LET FLY. I HAVE BEEN BOWHUNTING ALL OF MY LIFE AND HAVE HAD THE PLEASURE OF TALKING TO 100'S OF HUNTERS WHO HAVE HUNTED WITH SAGE MOUNTAIN OUTFITTERS YOU ARE THE ONE AND ONLY HUNTER THAT HAS COMPLAINED. I HAVE NO DOULBT THAT THERE WERE SOME ISSUES BUT TO SLANDER A MAN AND HIS FAMILY AND BUSINESS LIKE THIS IS APPALLING TO ME ESPECIALLY SINCE I KNOW OF THIS EVENT ON THE FIRST NIGHT OF YOUR HUNT. I WOULD NOT HAVE SHOT OVER 20 YARDS THAT NIGHT DUE TO THE CROSS WINDS THAT WERE RAGING ON THE FRONT RANGE THAT NIGHT.
Hi Mr. Stucky, welcome to HNI
[&:]
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:02 PM   #24
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Default RE: DO NOT HUNT WITH SAGE MOUNTAIN OUTFITTERS

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Here is why"
Lead up:
1. When I first called the Stucky"s (owners of Sage Mountain Outfitters) regarding a hunt with them I was told that they have numerous ranches that they hunt and that the "Cobb Ranch" was the best for trophy bulls. I asked whether or not our chances of getting a bull of any size were greatly reduced by going there and I was told by Renee that they were not and in fact "last year we had 100% shots on the Cobb." Well, I figured I had nothing to lose then if there were a bunch of trophy bulls and the odds of getting an elk were the same or better there than any other ranch they hunt.
Truth: Our guide informed us that last year they had nowhere near 100% shots. He said that perhaps one or two hunters all year (out of 12 or 13) actually had shot opportunities. There was a crosswind
2. They claim to have a 95% success rate at calling a brow tine bull into 30 yards or closer.
Truth: Our guide informed us that he would guess it is about 1/3 or less of the hunters actually get a bull that close. Again really bad crosswind
3. They claim that all of the "big bulls" that they kill come off of the Cobb Ranch.
Truth: We found out that while that is technically true, all but one in the history of hunting that ranch have been taken by the owner of Sage Mountain Outfitters or the head guide of the Cobb Ranch after they have "guided" all of their hunters for the year. crosswind
4. Renee informed me that the guaranteed outfitters license was $350 for elk only or $500 for a combo license.
Truth: They are $1350 and $1500 respectively. $1000 makes a big difference when budgeting for a trip, and the truth did not come out until we had already sent in our non-refundable deposits (you will notice that will be a theme here). Years with a bad crosswind, cause the price to go up
5. After sending in our non-refundable deposits we were told of a "wounded animal" policy that Sage Mountain Outfitters has. If you wound an elk during your hunt, you are done hunting. If that is their policy, then that is fine, but the hunters should have to know before paying a $1000 deposit and by this time we had also paid for our $1500 licenses so we would have been out $2500 a piece had we not agreed to comply.
6. The Stucky"s are completely disorganized and do not communicate with the hunters or themselves well. We told Cal (the owner) that we would be flying into Helena, MT on Friday evening as we were scheduled to go to camp Saturday evening and we wanted to make sure that our gear got there, etc. Then, while I am standing in the Helena airport weeks later I receive a call from Renee (his wife) asking us what time our flight was arriving the next day. Crosswinds do cause flight delays
7. More evidence of disorganization. They told us our guide would be Dan Antilla, the head guide of the Cobb ranch. He called on Saturday and told us that a man named Dennis Yager would be our guide. So, the Stucky"s had no idea what was happening on their lease and with their own guides.Guides do get Crosswind fever once in a while and call in sick

The Hunt:
1. The first night Dan Antilla was still in camp and so he did take me out that night and would leave after we returned to camp. I ended up having a 45 yard, broadside shot at a perfectly still 380"+ bull and he would not allow me to take the shot saying that it was "too far". First, he had no range finder with him and so had no idea exactly how far it was. Secondly, before we left camp he was bragging about how he took his 360" bull the previous year at "well over 60 yards". Obviously, there was an ulterior motive. Damn Crosswind
2. The rest of the hunt was guided only by Dennis Yager who was told that he was "not allowed" to hunt the timber. The problem was, that is where the elk were. We eventually told the guide that we were going in after them whether we were allowed or not, and it was only by doing this that we ever got close to any more elk. Hunting in the timber would reduce Crosswind, that is a No No
3. The day"s activities were to include leaving camp before first light, going to a hilltop to glass for elk, watch where they go into the timber, and return to camp until the evening unless you wanted to go after mule deer. So basically they want you to get ½ of the hunt you pay for by only hunting in the evenings. Crosswinds are absolutly horrible in the mornings.
4. By all of their methods it was obvious that the outfitter is more interested in not spooking the bulls off the ranch so that he and his big money clients or the hunters who are accompanied by a camera crew (Wolf Creek does some filming there) can get them. Crosswinds die down when big money clients walk intocamp

The Camp:
1. The port-o-potty was so full of feces that one had to actually worry about touching when using the facilities. The call was made to Cal and Dan Antilla on Sunday (the day after arrival) to have it pumped and they never called anyone all week to actually have it done. Crosswind will blow terrible smell away. Nothing to worry about
2. The lady they had in camp to cook decided it would be a good idea to have her alcoholic boyfriend stay the night and have dinner with us. The man was so drunk he was literally falling over, spilling his drinks, and dropping his entire plate full of food on the floor. He was cussing up a storm and trying to get the guide to fight him. Let"s just say it was terribly uncomfortable and amazingly unprofessional. Then, we had to listen to the rhythmic sound of a camper creaking and banging back and forth while they consummated the event. That stiff crosswind was causing the sounds fromthe camper

Post Hunt:
My father and I wrote to Cal to inform him of our experience. At this point we figured it was a decent outfit, although disorganized, with a bad head guide mismanaging one of his camps. Well, we were wrong. When I followed up the letters with a phone call I told him that I was not trying to get anything out of him and only wanted to inform him of how things were on the Cobb. He responded, "I know how things are on that ranch. I am their boss." He also informed me that he was glad that Dan Antilla had kept me from taking the shot at that bull because "any shot over 40 yards is completely unethical, and if you would take that shot, then perhaps you should just get a rifle and kill one at 800 yards." He stated that it was their policy that no one should take a shot over 40 yards. I told him that Dennis informed me that Dan Antilla had killed his last 2 bulls at well beyond that range. Of course, he had no intelligent response except to say that if I were to ask any ethical "big name hunter like Will Primos" that they would say that 45 yards is an unethical shot. I stated that Cameron Haines and Michael Waddell would definitely disagree with that and he said that is because they are "unethical hunters". Again, it is his business and if that is the policy, then fine, but obviously his policies only apply and are enforced when they suite him. Also, these types of policies have to be known to the hunters prior to booking or it is as good as lying to them. When I told him that I thought his policies were ludicrous and that I had never even heard of anything like that from the other outfitters I had used he questioned me as to whether or not I had ever really been with another outfitter. The man was truly the most pompous arrogant human being I have ever encountered (and that is saying a lot). He was born, raised, and still lives in the same town with a population of a couple of hundred people. His lack of real world experience was extremely apparent the more we spoke as he only dealt in absolutes.

Trust me, if you are looking for the elk hunt of a lifetime, or even just that year, then do not waste your money with Sage Mountain Outfitters. I have been with 5 outfitters in my life, and this is the first that I have ever had to complain to, let alone post about due to their terrible client service.




So you see NOTREDAME, that stiff crosswind was the only problem on that hunt.
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:28 PM   #25
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Default RE: DO NOT HUNT WITH SAGE MOUNTAIN OUTFITTERS

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I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS NIGHT WITH CAL EXTENSIVELY. I BELEIVE THAT SHOULD THE TRUTH BE TOLD CAL SAID THAT TAKING A 45 YARD SHOT IN A STIFF CROSS WIND (THAT NIGHT 30 TO 60 MPH) WOULD BE UNETHICAL.
Since neither you nor Cal were present when the shot opportunity was presented,you have no idea of the actual wind strength and direction at the actual shot opportunity location.
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:42 PM   #26
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ORIGINAL: NOTREDAME

WELL HUNTINGSON WHILE I AM SURE YOUR HUNT WAS NOT THE DREAM HUNT THAT YOU HAVE IMAGINED IT TO BE I DON'T BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE TOLD THE WHOLE STORY HERE!!!!!!!! THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE EXTREME CROSS WIND THAT WAS BLOWING THAT NIGHT. I HAVE HAD THE GREAT EXPERIENCE TO BE ON SEVERAL HUNTS WITH CAL STUCKY ( OVER 35 ) AND HAVE NEVER HAD A BAD ONE. I AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE COBB RANCH AND THE WAY TO HUNT IT. I WAS ALSO ON A NEIGHBORING RANCH THE EVENING THAT YOU WERE AT THE COBB AND I KNOW WHAT THE WIND WAS LIKE. I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS NIGHT WITH CAL EXTENSIVELY. I BELEIVE THAT SHOULD THE TRUTH BE TOLD CAL SAID THAT TAKING A 45 YARD SHOT IN A STIFF CROSS WIND (THAT NIGHT 30 TO 60 MPH) WOULD BE UNETHICAL. AS YOU BASH THIS MAN AND HIS WIFE AND BUSINESS YOU ARE THE HUNTER AND YOU HAVE ALL OF THE POWER IN YOUR FINGER TO LET THE ARROW FLY. I HAVE KNOW DAN ANTILLA MY WHOLE LIFE AND KNOW FOR A FACT IF DAN SAYS DON'T SHOOT THEN IT WAS NOT AN ETHICAL SHOT IN YOUR MIND YOU KNOW THAT IT WASN'T OR YOU WOULD HAVE LET FLY. I HAVE BEEN BOWHUNTING ALL OF MY LIFE AND HAVE HAD THE PLEASURE OF TALKING TO 100'S OF HUNTERS WHO HAVE HUNTED WITH SAGE MOUNTAIN OUTFITTERS YOU ARE THE ONE AND ONLY HUNTER THAT HAS COMPLAINED. I HAVE NO DOULBT THAT THERE WERE SOME ISSUES BUT TO SLANDER A MAN AND HIS FAMILY AND BUSINESS LIKE THIS IS APPALLING TO ME ESPECIALLY SINCE I KNOW OF THIS EVENT ON THE FIRST NIGHT OF YOUR HUNT. I WOULD NOT HAVE SHOT OVER 20 YARDS THAT NIGHT DUE TO THE CROSS WINDS THAT WERE RAGING ON THE FRONT RANGE THAT NIGHT.
Imagine that, one post. Sure this is credible. Hey man, go back into your hole.

Thanks, Huntingson for the review. I have been on several outfitted hunts, and I have yet to see one true to its word. Some better, some worse.
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:08 PM   #27
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I have been on several outfitted hunts, and I have yet to see one true to its word. Some better, some worse.
I have been on a few that delivered everything that they promised.
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:35 PM   #28
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Default RE: DO NOT HUNT WITH SAGE MOUNTAIN OUTFITTERS

NotreDame... your ignorant post only proves (to me anyway) that Huntingson is telling the truth. Besides I've met with and talked to Jim at the North East GTG last summer and he's a stand up guy. He has no reason to lie to his freinds here at hunting net. Thanks for the warning Jim about this pathetic outfitter. And thank you NotreDame for showing us what kind of idiots these ranch owners obviously cater too.
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Old 12-07-2008, 03:27 PM   #29
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Default RE: DO NOT HUNT WITH SAGE MOUNTAIN OUTFITTERS

I'd like to say that trying to avoid saving a buck may help you avoid these situations, though I'm not sure that's the case. I did once hear a man who had taken many trophies in his lifetime, say, never book a cheap hunt...and I have to say while I don't have near the experience that man had, I have been on quite a few, and hands down the pricier hunts, all were more professional, andbetter experiences, period. Those quality hunts I either took a quality animal or at least felt I could...was in the area, right spot, etc...and just did not get lucky, while the save a buck hunts....were similar in some respects to what you said, drunk boyfriend, unproffessional, etc.. and while had I done well that would probably be more of a side note, its not very surprising that we weren't successful in those situations, so they certainly seem to go hand in hand.

Do wish you didn't have to experience such a bad hunt, I think calling every reference possible is what I'll be doing in the future.
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:46 PM   #30
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Default RE: DO NOT HUNT WITH SAGE MOUNTAIN OUTFITTERS

I deer hunted with a outfitter in Coalville Utah 13 years ago and the owners name was Cal also. My hunt was also a giant box of lies and it was a waste of $$$. I forget the name of the outfit though. I wander if it was the same guy. Sorry for your trip.
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