bullet placement
01-29-2003, 11:17 PM
#13
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tacoma WA USA
Posts: 131
RE: bullet placement
Its got to depend at least partly on the situation.
Close, in open country, with time, I'd take a crease/behind shoulder shot.
Moving, brush, tough country, I'd aim high in the mid shoulder if possible.
And I have killed a few bulls in my time (never had trouble finding any); and I say who's really kidding who? You don't always get the luxury of this choice.On most of 'em I haven't had really the space or time to plan it out too much. In the brush, hit 'em in the front and don't stop shootin' till they stop movin'. It is generally thick timber where I hunt.
Close, in open country, with time, I'd take a crease/behind shoulder shot.
Moving, brush, tough country, I'd aim high in the mid shoulder if possible.
And I have killed a few bulls in my time (never had trouble finding any); and I say who's really kidding who? You don't always get the luxury of this choice.On most of 'em I haven't had really the space or time to plan it out too much. In the brush, hit 'em in the front and don't stop shootin' till they stop movin'. It is generally thick timber where I hunt.
01-30-2003, 10:14 AM
#14
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: bullet placement
BullKllr,
You bring up a good point. The "opportunity window" for rifle elk is typically quite brief. One has to get the crosshairs into the middle of one's "feel good zone" and squeeze off a round or the opportunity may well be gone thus leaving the hunter second guessing himself, "Why did I wait for "perfect" when I had "sufficient"? Elk certainly don't stand around as patiently as deer (the 125 yard look back at you shot) and certainly not as patient as that paper target that sits opposite of the bench rest.
Rochelle,
I forgot to "stay on point" to your last question, about quality bullets hold up on shoulder shots. You could hear varying accounts on this, but in my experience, "Yes." One example: I found one bullet as we dressed/skinned an elk this year. 375HH, 300 grain Nosler Partition, 210 yards, went through both shoulders and stirred up everything in between, and lodged under the hide on the opposite side. 75% of the "mushroom petals" were intact and probably 50% of the front portion of the bullet was intact for roughly 75-80% intact overall. I was pleased.
Never Undergunned,
EKM
Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!
Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/30/2003 11:29:36
You bring up a good point. The "opportunity window" for rifle elk is typically quite brief. One has to get the crosshairs into the middle of one's "feel good zone" and squeeze off a round or the opportunity may well be gone thus leaving the hunter second guessing himself, "Why did I wait for "perfect" when I had "sufficient"? Elk certainly don't stand around as patiently as deer (the 125 yard look back at you shot) and certainly not as patient as that paper target that sits opposite of the bench rest.
Rochelle,
I forgot to "stay on point" to your last question, about quality bullets hold up on shoulder shots. You could hear varying accounts on this, but in my experience, "Yes." One example: I found one bullet as we dressed/skinned an elk this year. 375HH, 300 grain Nosler Partition, 210 yards, went through both shoulders and stirred up everything in between, and lodged under the hide on the opposite side. 75% of the "mushroom petals" were intact and probably 50% of the front portion of the bullet was intact for roughly 75-80% intact overall. I was pleased.
Never Undergunned,
EKM
Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!
Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/30/2003 11:29:36
01-30-2003, 05:07 PM
#15
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: phoenix arizona USA
Posts: 296
RE: bullet placement
how come people think that they have to take a long distance shot at elk???????? people who bowhunt have to get close for a good shot and good shot placement, so why shouldn't rifle hunters do the same????????? every elk i've ever shot has been within 50 yds and only had one that ran over 100 yds. you take out the lungs and it might run 40 yds at the most. if you have too or want to then shoot again. just my 2 cents
[email protected]
IF IT IS TO BE......
IT IS UP TO ME......
[email protected]
IF IT IS TO BE......
IT IS UP TO ME......
01-30-2003, 09:38 PM
#16
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: bullet placement
I can't speak for the rest of the country, but in Colorado some differences (not that they'll be at all acceptable) that result in longer shots are:
By rifle season, there's little or no rut or pre-rut activity. Elk are no longer "love sick" and thus are not as likely to be guilty of poor judgment (being fooled).
By rifle season, the herds have been hassled first by the archery hunters (minor) and then the muzzle loaders (major). The "word is out" about hunters and the game on public land tends to be much more skittish (read longer shots) by the time the regular rifle hunters get there.
Archery season is months long, our elk season is 5 days long - don't have any time to waste - got to get the job done. Plus, when you butcher, wrap and freeze 5 elk in camp it can take a day or two.
Kinda like the Iraqi Republican Guard and our boys out in the desert - we're there to win, not screw around! Got the technology (magnum rifle, range finder, scope) and going to use it. If it's a clean shot in my kill zone then its in trouble. Some folks by choice of their tools limit their kill zone and if thats what they want then that is fine.
------------------
Just my perspective, may be too pragmatic for some, probably not for everyone, some may not like it that way - thats okay, some may call it unsportsmanlike - thats okay, some may say thay like it different - thats okay, some may shoot all their elk at 40 yards with iron sights - thats okay, some may agree - thats okay too.
Never Undergunned
EKM
Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!
Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/30/2003 22:52:50
By rifle season, there's little or no rut or pre-rut activity. Elk are no longer "love sick" and thus are not as likely to be guilty of poor judgment (being fooled).
By rifle season, the herds have been hassled first by the archery hunters (minor) and then the muzzle loaders (major). The "word is out" about hunters and the game on public land tends to be much more skittish (read longer shots) by the time the regular rifle hunters get there.
Archery season is months long, our elk season is 5 days long - don't have any time to waste - got to get the job done. Plus, when you butcher, wrap and freeze 5 elk in camp it can take a day or two.
Kinda like the Iraqi Republican Guard and our boys out in the desert - we're there to win, not screw around! Got the technology (magnum rifle, range finder, scope) and going to use it. If it's a clean shot in my kill zone then its in trouble. Some folks by choice of their tools limit their kill zone and if thats what they want then that is fine.
------------------
Just my perspective, may be too pragmatic for some, probably not for everyone, some may not like it that way - thats okay, some may call it unsportsmanlike - thats okay, some may say thay like it different - thats okay, some may shoot all their elk at 40 yards with iron sights - thats okay, some may agree - thats okay too.
Never Undergunned
EKM
Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!
Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/30/2003 22:52:50
01-31-2003, 12:22 PM
#17
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cedar Valley Utah
Posts: 977
RE: bullet placement
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
how come people think that they have to take a long distance shot at elk???????? people who bowhunt have to get close for a good shot and good shot placement, so why shouldn't rifle hunters do the same????????? every elk i've ever shot has been within 50 yds and only had one that ran over 100 yds. you take out the lungs and it might run 40 yds at the most. if you have too or want to then shoot again. just my 2 cents
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Whoa there, get some more facts before you get question mark happy. Like EKM says rifle sason is a whole different ball of wax. If you had ever gone on a unguided general season rifle hunt on public land you'd know that. I've been on bow hunts early in the season and elk are very responsive to calls and very relaxed. During rifle season you can get em to call back to ya but they aren't as likely to come runnin.
Why?
Because they aren't lookin for girlfriends near as much. Early season hunts have relatively few hunters in the mountains. Rifle season has many hunters and just the high amount of human presence get the elk spooked, and thats before we go trompin through thier bedrooms and watering holes. The elk are very spooked by the time rifle season comes around and the hunt becomes much more difficult. In areas like Colorado or Utah where I'm at, open country and deep canyons are common and elk when spooked will not come to calls and will stay where they can see all around them so stalking is much less likely. Also there a smaller factors. Bow hunters can where camo but rifle hunters have that bright orange to give them away. And elk can see better than most think. Sorry but on general season public land rifle hunts, your success many times will depend on your rifles ability to to make a long shot.
Not trying to say rifle hunting is more difficult but it would be if we had the same range limitations. Thats why sometimes we have to take a long distance shot at an elk!!!!!!!!
how come people think that they have to take a long distance shot at elk???????? people who bowhunt have to get close for a good shot and good shot placement, so why shouldn't rifle hunters do the same????????? every elk i've ever shot has been within 50 yds and only had one that ran over 100 yds. you take out the lungs and it might run 40 yds at the most. if you have too or want to then shoot again. just my 2 cents
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Whoa there, get some more facts before you get question mark happy. Like EKM says rifle sason is a whole different ball of wax. If you had ever gone on a unguided general season rifle hunt on public land you'd know that. I've been on bow hunts early in the season and elk are very responsive to calls and very relaxed. During rifle season you can get em to call back to ya but they aren't as likely to come runnin.
Why?
Because they aren't lookin for girlfriends near as much. Early season hunts have relatively few hunters in the mountains. Rifle season has many hunters and just the high amount of human presence get the elk spooked, and thats before we go trompin through thier bedrooms and watering holes. The elk are very spooked by the time rifle season comes around and the hunt becomes much more difficult. In areas like Colorado or Utah where I'm at, open country and deep canyons are common and elk when spooked will not come to calls and will stay where they can see all around them so stalking is much less likely. Also there a smaller factors. Bow hunters can where camo but rifle hunters have that bright orange to give them away. And elk can see better than most think. Sorry but on general season public land rifle hunts, your success many times will depend on your rifles ability to to make a long shot.
Not trying to say rifle hunting is more difficult but it would be if we had the same range limitations. Thats why sometimes we have to take a long distance shot at an elk!!!!!!!!
01-31-2003, 06:44 PM
#18
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: phoenix arizona USA
Posts: 296
RE: bullet placement
hey elkcampmaster, i invite you to come and enjoy some arizona elk hunting, no charge for GUIDE FEES, you put in for an area and we get drawn and we go. byob and food too. lol all the areas i hunt have rolling hills and no real verticals (unless you want too) check out www.azgf.com i usually hunt unit 6a. in the back pg #68 has the draw percentages email me [email protected]
IF IT IS TO BE......
IT IS UP TO ME......
IF IT IS TO BE......
IT IS UP TO ME......
01-31-2003, 10:33 PM
#19
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: bullet placement
Dart,
Thanks for the invitation. No doubt Arizona has some of the premier elk hunting and some of the biggest bulls in the U.S. and having the opportunity to avoid guide fees and have someone provide info is a real plus! Though you might have to admit we'd likely make strange company, given our different styles and the importance of elk camp camaraderie plus our being on different sides of a "few" issues.
I've got a fair bunch of people, friends and family, counting on our annual "setup" of the "Hilton Elk Camp" in Colorado each year and taking 16 to 17 days off for that is a handful - two elk outings in a single autumn would likely leave me divorced! So thanks, but no can do.
Even though the elk hunting thing has been and is wonderful, as of late, I'm feeling a little restless for something a little different: caribou, moose, the great bears, and then African game. With Africa being so reasonable in cost versus Alaska and Canada it may NOT go in that order. So I'm banking my time and my money accordingly.
[Note: one advantage to Africa, is you can hunt six months later (like spring turkey hunting).]
Never Undergunned,
EKM
Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!
Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/31/2003 23:36:16
Thanks for the invitation. No doubt Arizona has some of the premier elk hunting and some of the biggest bulls in the U.S. and having the opportunity to avoid guide fees and have someone provide info is a real plus! Though you might have to admit we'd likely make strange company, given our different styles and the importance of elk camp camaraderie plus our being on different sides of a "few" issues.
I've got a fair bunch of people, friends and family, counting on our annual "setup" of the "Hilton Elk Camp" in Colorado each year and taking 16 to 17 days off for that is a handful - two elk outings in a single autumn would likely leave me divorced! So thanks, but no can do.
Even though the elk hunting thing has been and is wonderful, as of late, I'm feeling a little restless for something a little different: caribou, moose, the great bears, and then African game. With Africa being so reasonable in cost versus Alaska and Canada it may NOT go in that order. So I'm banking my time and my money accordingly.
[Note: one advantage to Africa, is you can hunt six months later (like spring turkey hunting).]
Never Undergunned,
EKM
Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!
Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/31/2003 23:36:16
